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A vivid display of ObamaCare

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Darth Cheney
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Post  BladeRunner Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:45 pm

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Post  Darth Cheney Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:27 am

Hers is the solution libs...and it doesn't involve more government:

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Post  Tynda Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:34 pm

Darth Cheney wrote:Hers is the solution libs...and it doesn't involve more government:

Hay Darth !  Thanks for posting this.  I'm sure you have noted that I've advocated for National Single Payer.  Why?  Because we have got to bring down heath care costs from this 18% and growing GDP cost.  Our current system won't do it, and sure as hell ObamaCare isn't going to do it. I've supported NSP because, and only because, I have not seen a another viable option..  Now I have, thanks to you.

Now how do we get republicans to back this?  I sure as heck don't want democrats trying to run with something like this because it would be screwed up just like they screwed up ObamaCare.  Besides democrats would NEVER back this, it puts power back in the hands of the people and of the patients, and out of the hands of Washington.
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Post  Gomezz Adddams Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:16 pm

Sounds real similar to a health savings account which have been around for years but have been totally ignored discouraged by Congress, in particular the Democrats. Here's an article I found in the Idaho Reporter about Dr Fenwick and his pitch:

http://www.idahoreporter.com/2012/north-idaho-physician-believes-he-has-a-better-way-to-deal-with-health-care-costs/

Here's his Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Loel-Fenwick-MD/441571009245913
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Post  Darth Cheney Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:36 pm

The government doesn't and shouldn't be involved in any health insurance period.  What they ave done is destroyed the existing system so out of the ashes...

Te government will never let Obamacare go...it is the ultimate Holy Grail of total control of the population.  Only gunpowder will reverse the direction we are on.
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Post  Jammer Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:07 am

Tynda wrote:
Hay Darth !  Thanks for posting this.  I'm sure you have noted that I've advocated for National Single Payer.  Why?  Because we have got to bring down heath care costs from this 18% and growing GDP cost.  Our current system won't do it, and sure as hell ObamaCare isn't going to do it. I've supported NSP because, and only because, I have not seen a another viable option..  Now I have, thanks to you.

Now how do we get republicans to back this?  I sure as heck don't want democrats trying to run with something like this because it would be screwed up just like they screwed up ObamaCare.  Besides democrats would NEVER back this, it puts power back in the hands of the people and of the patients, and out of the hands of Washington.
Single payer is not the answer and is 180 degrees from what will help reduce healthcare costs.  The government needs to be completely out of the healthcare business.  The bloated and remote bureaucratic nightmare in DC is incapable of doing anything correctly.

Healthcare needs to be put in the hands of the individuals.  When we return healthcare to a participant in free market capitalism the costs will go down.  Allow consumers to shop across state lines and make them responsible for the purchasing decisions.  They will shop for the best prices and help drive prices down.  Healthcare can see the same types of cost control as does the technology market.

Consider the scenario of having our computer and cellphone needs handled by insurance companies.  When consumers have the insurance companies pay from the first dollar or merely have to pay a small co-pay, they will always want the biggest honking and newest computer or cellphone available not to mention one for every room of their house.  Guess what happens to costs then?

Numerous conservative proposals have been submitted and the following is JUST ONE:

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/04/health-care-reform-design-principles-for-a-patient-centered-consumer-based-market

However, they are ignored by liberals who do not believe in personal accountability and think it is the government's job to take care of their every need.

Add to this some tort reform where the blood sucking liberal lawyers line their pockets and drive up healthcare costs, there are solid answers to solving this problem and none of them involve the government taking care of all the needs of a person.  At the rate we are going we must only be a couple of years away from have the US Department of Azz wiping who will meet you in the bathroom whenever nature calls.
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Post  nightlight88 Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:02 pm

Jammer wrote:
Tynda wrote:
Hay Darth !  Thanks for posting this.  I'm sure you have noted that I've advocated for National Single Payer.  Why?  Because we have got to bring down heath care costs from this 18% and growing GDP cost.  Our current system won't do it, and sure as hell ObamaCare isn't going to do it. I've supported NSP because, and only because, I have not seen a another viable option..  Now I have, thanks to you.

Now how do we get republicans to back this?  I sure as heck don't want democrats trying to run with something like this because it would be screwed up just like they screwed up ObamaCare.  Besides democrats would NEVER back this, it puts power back in the hands of the people and of the patients, and out of the hands of Washington.
Single payer is not the answer and is 180 degrees from what will help reduce healthcare costs.  The government needs to be completely out of the healthcare business.  The bloated and remote bureaucratic nightmare in DC is incapable of doing anything correctly.

Healthcare needs to be put in the hands of the individuals.  When we return healthcare to a participant in free market capitalism the costs will go down.  Allow consumers to shop across state lines and make them responsible for the purchasing decisions.  They will shop for the best prices and help drive prices down.  Healthcare can see the same types of cost control as does the technology market.

Consider the scenario of having our computer and cellphone needs handled by insurance companies.  When consumers have the insurance companies pay from the first dollar or merely have to pay a small co-pay, they will always want the biggest honking and newest computer or cellphone available not to mention one for every room of their house.  Guess what happens to costs then?

Numerous conservative proposals have been submitted and the following is JUST ONE:

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/04/health-care-reform-design-principles-for-a-patient-centered-consumer-based-market

However, they are ignored by liberals who do not believe in personal accountability and think it is the government's job to take care of their every need.

Add to this some tort reform where the blood sucking liberal lawyers line their pockets and drive up healthcare costs, there are solid answers to solving this problem and none of them involve the government taking care of all the needs of a person.  At the rate we are going we must only be a couple of years away from have the US Department of Azz wiping who will meet you in the bathroom whenever nature calls.

A vivid display of ObamaCare 1250919165 

The least amount the govt is involved, the better off we are.
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Post  Tynda Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:50 pm

Jammer,

That's a good article at the Heritage Foundation's site.  

Before gong on, remember that I"M LOOKING for a solution OTHER THAN NSP.  To date, I've seen only a scattering of other options.  Darth linked a good one, and its one that I can support.  

There are problems with the Heritage Foundation's proposal.

The two really big ones are:

What happens  to Medicare?  Politically getting rid of Medicare is a non starter, at least for those nearing, at, or above Age 65.

The other really big one is that there are far too many people who will not do a thing to participant in an individually centered health care system.   Simply put, they will not go out and buy insurance.  And to that, I can add the word PERIOD, because that is a fact.

So when they show up at the ER, you know they are not going to be turned away, and when they don't pay, it gets passed onto us by one means or another.  Of course, there is always the option of showing them the door and saying goodby and good luck.  If its some drug addict, I couldn't care less.  But what happens when its a 5 year old child?

In a rational world, the Heritage Foundation's proposal will certainly work, but we are not in a rational world and we have a large portion of our population that has grown up and been told that if they are irresponsible, that somebody will take care of them never the less.

Forced health savings accounts?  Well, there comes government again.  If health savings accounts are not forced, anybody want to guess what percentage of the population wouldn't do them?  Hell, its hard enough to save for retirement, much less put something away for health care bills.  I've been lucky.  I've always had insurance, but more importantly, I've always have enough cash to pay the co-pay and deductibles.  But for the countless millions that live pay check to pay check, and those living from one welfare check to the next, we know damn well they are NOT going to be putting anything into a health savings account, and probably not buying insurance either; oh heck, almost for sure, they are not going to buy insurance even if the government stepped in and said they had to.

Solutions are not solutions if there is no practical way of implementation. Perhaps that really describes all the proposals for health care, there is no practical method of implementation that doesn't create more problems than it solves.
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Post  Jammer Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:25 pm

Tynda wrote:Jammer,

That's a good article at the Heritage Foundation's site.  

Before gong on, remember that I"M LOOKING for a solution OTHER THAN NSP.  To date, I've seen only a scattering of other options.  Darth linked a good one, and its one that I can support.  

There are problems with the Heritage Foundation's proposal.

The two really big ones are:

What happens  to Medicare?
 Politically getting rid of Medicare is a non starter, at least for those nearing, at, or above Age 65.

The other really big one is that there are far too many people who will not do a thing to participant in an individually centered health care system.   Simply put, they will not go out and buy insurance.  And to that, I can add the word PERIOD, because that is a fact.

So when they show up at the ER, you know they are not going to be turned away, and when they don't pay, it gets passed onto us by one means or another.  Of course, there is always the option of showing them the door and saying goodby and good luck.  If its some drug addict, I couldn't care less.  But what happens when its a 5 year old child?

In a rational world, the Heritage Foundation's proposal will certainly work, but we are not in a rational world and we have a large portion of our population that has grown up and been told that if they are irresponsible, that somebody will take care of them never the less.

Forced health savings accounts?  Well, there comes government again.  If health savings accounts are not forced, anybody want to guess what percentage of the population wouldn't do them?  Hell, its hard enough to save for retirement, much less put something away for health care bills.  I've been lucky.  I've always had insurance, but more importantly, I've always have enough cash to pay the co-pay and deductibles.  But for the countless millions that live pay check to pay check, and those living from one welfare check to the next, we know damn well they are NOT going to be putting anything into a health savings account, and probably not buying insurance either; oh heck, almost for sure, they are not going to buy insurance even if the government stepped in and said they had to.

Solutions are not solutions if there is no practical way of implementation. Perhaps that really describes all the proposals for health care, there is no practical method of implementation that doesn't create more problems than it solves.
The Medicare ship has not only sailed, but it is a long ways from the dock.  There is no way to just end it.  Some type of solution needs to be found, but this is one that will under the best case scenario drain the US Treasury and under the worst case scenario, "break the camel's back".

As for the 5 year old kid, we do have a responsibility to care for those who are unable to care for themselves and certainly a 5 year old kid is not able to care for themselves.  Once upon a time we had faith based organizations that handled this and actually did it pretty well.  It has only been since the federal government has squeezed them out of the picture has the problem gotten worse.

As for people who are capable of taking care of themselves but choose not to, SHOW THEM THE DOOR when they show up at the ER.  Until there are consequences for their actions they will not change their behavior.  You essentially said so yourself.  It is time to toughen up and drop all the PC garbage.  As long as the bleeding heart liberals never let a person go unattended for, there will always be a large percentage of people that will sit back and let others care for them.

Bottom-line there has simply got to be CONSEQUENCES for bad choices.  Or as the old saying goes:  'If I never had to pay for my mistakes, I wouldn't care how many I made".

Back to the faith based charities and organizations such as non-profit hospitals, perhaps if non-profit hospitals like Sanford used their "excess" money to take care of the poor instead of building places like the Pentagon and the numerous football and soccer fields a lot of the problems would be eliminated.

There could be places like the following who do an excellent job:

http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/local/communities/spearfish/spearfish-s-good-shepherd-clinic-still-going-strong-after-three/article_986e34b0-5dc9-11e1-bba3-0019bb2963f4.html

http://www.oslcspearfish.com/ministries/good_shepherd_clinic.php

And even if the ship called Medicare has sailed and is too far from the dock to get back, PLEASE DO NOT LAUNCH ANOTHER ONE CALLED NATIONAL SINGLE PAYER.

It is time to return to a constitutionally limited government and that means getting the federal government out of healthcare.  For anyone unable to take care of themselves and their family or faith based organizations are not able to provide for them, they become the responsibility of LOCAL government.
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