The Brownback Experiment

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The Brownback Experiment

Post  Dr. Evil on Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:58 am

A couple years ago our neighbors to the south embarked on a journey to find the key to open the door to a conservative utopia.  It appears that they found OZ instead, and a fake wizard rambling on about the benefits of supply side economics.  

"Experiment" probably isn't quite the right word.  This theory has been tested time and time again, with no success.  Look at the pooch screw we had under the Bush tax cuts.... When will we learn that Reaganomics is a farce?  When will we learn that if you want to give a tax break, give it to the spenders of our society who can actually spur the economy?



http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/06/30/opinion/paul-krugman-charlatans-cranks-and-kansas.html?_r=0&referrer=

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/gop-learns-lessons-from-brownbacks-tax-scare-113806.html


Last edited by Dr. Jones on Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Alleycat on Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:15 am

First of all Doc I would take anything Krugman says nothing more then horseshit. Secondly taxation should be fair everyone pays the same percentage. If you have been keeping up you might be reminded that high taxation of business has driven Walgreens, Burger King, Target and Amazon and several others across the border into Canada. Does it EVER enter the Liberal mind set that less spent trumps taxation. Less spent is a positive and taxation is a negative.

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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Dr. Evil on Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:19 am

Alleycat wrote:First of all Doc I would take anything Krugman says nothing more then horseshit. Secondly taxation should be fair everyone pays the same percentage. If you have been keeping up you might be reminded that high taxation of business has driven Walgreens, Burger King, Target and Amazon and several others across the border into Canada. Does it EVER enter the Liberal mind set that less spent trumps taxation. Less spent is a positive and taxation is a negative.

Anything to say in the disastrous experiment, or nah?
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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Alleycat on Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:22 am

Dr. Jones wrote:
Alleycat wrote:First of all Doc I would take anything Krugman says nothing more then horseshit. Secondly taxation should be fair everyone pays the same percentage. If you have been keeping up you might be reminded that high taxation of business has driven Walgreens, Burger King, Target and Amazon and several others across the border into Canada. Does it EVER enter the Liberal mind set that less spent trumps taxation. Less spent is a positive and taxation is a negative.

Anything to say in the disastrous experiment, or nah?
What good would it do? Liberals have a blind belief and agenda. BTW Doc I checked a national map and some places on the Internet and Kansas is STILL there.

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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Dr. Evil on Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:25 am

Alleycat wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:
Alleycat wrote:First of all Doc I would take anything Krugman says nothing more then horseshit. Secondly taxation should be fair everyone pays the same percentage. If you have been keeping up you might be reminded that high taxation of business has driven Walgreens, Burger King, Target and Amazon and several others across the border into Canada. Does it EVER enter the Liberal mind set that less spent trumps taxation. Less spent is a positive and taxation is a negative.

Anything to say in the disastrous experiment, or nah?
What good would it do? Liberals have a blind belief and agenda.

After another failure of Reaganomics you are going to try to lecture me on "blind belief"?
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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Darth Cheney on Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:26 am

Dr. Jones wrote:
Alleycat wrote:First of all Doc I would take anything Krugman says nothing more then horseshit. Secondly taxation should be fair everyone pays the same percentage. If you have been keeping up you might be reminded that high taxation of business has driven Walgreens, Burger King, Target and Amazon and several others across the border into Canada. Does it EVER enter the Liberal mind set that less spent trumps taxation. Less spent is a positive and taxation is a negative.

Anything to say in the disastrous experiment, or nah?

Look up Laffer curve.

Coming from someone who has enjoyed a lifetime of lower property tax obligations, I am surprised by your position.
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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Alleycat on Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:43 am

How about California one of the highest taxation states that is constantly on the edge of fiscal disaster?  How about Detroit high taxes, Democrat corruption and Union irresponsibility ? Detroit drove it's manufacturers out and now it is a bankrupt wastelan.

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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Dr. Evil on Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:58 am

Darth Cheney wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:
Alleycat wrote:First of all Doc I would take anything Krugman says nothing more then horseshit. Secondly taxation should be fair everyone pays the same percentage. If you have been keeping up you might be reminded that high taxation of business has driven Walgreens, Burger King, Target and Amazon and several others across the border into Canada. Does it EVER enter the Liberal mind set that less spent trumps taxation. Less spent is a positive and taxation is a negative.

Anything to say in the disastrous experiment, or nah?

Look up Laffer curve.

Coming from someone who has enjoyed a lifetime of lower property tax obligations, I am surprised by your position.

One thing you will find about farmers is that they are not necessarily good businessmen.  They are too emotionally driven and don't always make good decisions especially when it comes to spending.  They are in a constant battle to on-up their neighbor, and they are entirely to eager to spend $100k to upgrade a perfectly good piece of equipment to get out of paying $15k in taxes.  This, along with the sheer volume of dollars they spend, is huge for the local economy.  I would say that any tax breaks given have a very good ROA, which comes back to my point about giving tax breaks to those who actually spend the money.

That being said I agree with you in a large respect on your comments.  I have a huge problem with out of state land owners taking those tax breaks elsewhere.  From that aspect I would agree that a more even tax rate would be better for SD.
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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Darth Cheney on Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:30 pm

Dr. Jones wrote:
Darth Cheney wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:
Alleycat wrote:First of all Doc I would take anything Krugman says nothing more then horseshit. Secondly taxation should be fair everyone pays the same percentage. If you have been keeping up you might be reminded that high taxation of business has driven Walgreens, Burger King, Target and Amazon and several others across the border into Canada. Does it EVER enter the Liberal mind set that less spent trumps taxation. Less spent is a positive and taxation is a negative.

Anything to say in the disastrous experiment, or nah?

Look up Laffer curve.

Coming from someone who has enjoyed a lifetime of lower property tax obligations, I am surprised by your position.

One thing you will find about farmers is that they are not necessarily good businessmen.  They are too emotionally driven and don't always make good decisions especially when it comes to spending.  They are in a constant battle to on-up their neighbor, and they are entirely to eager to spend $100k to upgrade a perfectly good piece of equipment to get out of paying $15k in taxes.  This, along with the sheer volume of dollars they spend, is huge for the local economy.  I would say that any tax breaks given have a very good ROA, which comes back to my point about giving tax breaks to those who actually spend the money.

That being said I agree with you in a large respect on your comments.  I have a huge problem with out of state land owners taking those tax breaks elsewhere.  From that aspect I would agree that a more even tax rate would be better for SD.

We could start by making farmer's pay the same property tax rates as everyone else. Then the schools and road repairs might have adequate funding. Don't worry, they will be as good at spending money as those benevolent farmers. Maybe other property owners won't be forced to pay more to make up for the poor farmer. Hypocrite, thy name is Dr. Jones.
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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Alleycat on Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:32 pm

We need taxes to run the country no one argues that. But the taxes should be spent responsibly. I will use this example. Housing for the poor and less privileged. I will be the first to agree everyone needs a roof to live under and should not live in traps. So I am OK with putting up some decent housing projects. BUT when the people who live there shits in the halls and piles garbage there trashes their housing and sell dope and then complains and cries for better housing I say fu-k you live under a bridge. That is my problem with Liberals and taxation.

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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Dr. Evil on Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:44 pm

Darth Cheney wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:
Darth Cheney wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:
Alleycat wrote:First of all Doc I would take anything Krugman says nothing more then horseshit. Secondly taxation should be fair everyone pays the same percentage. If you have been keeping up you might be reminded that high taxation of business has driven Walgreens, Burger King, Target and Amazon and several others across the border into Canada. Does it EVER enter the Liberal mind set that less spent trumps taxation. Less spent is a positive and taxation is a negative.

Anything to say in the disastrous experiment, or nah?

Look up Laffer curve.

Coming from someone who has enjoyed a lifetime of lower property tax obligations, I am surprised by your position.

One thing you will find about farmers is that they are not necessarily good businessmen.  They are too emotionally driven and don't always make good decisions especially when it comes to spending.  They are in a constant battle to on-up their neighbor, and they are entirely to eager to spend $100k to upgrade a perfectly good piece of equipment to get out of paying $15k in taxes.  This, along with the sheer volume of dollars they spend, is huge for the local economy.  I would say that any tax breaks given have a very good ROA, which comes back to my point about giving tax breaks to those who actually spend the money.

That being said I agree with you in a large respect on your comments.  I have a huge problem with out of state land owners taking those tax breaks elsewhere.  From that aspect I would agree that a more even tax rate would be better for SD.

We could start by making farmer's pay the same property tax rates as everyone else. Then the schools and road repairs might have adequate funding.  Don't worry, they will be as good at spending money as those benevolent farmers.  Maybe other property owners won't be forced to pay more to make up for the poor farmer.  Hypocrite, thy name is Dr. Jones.

Go ahead and get the ball rolling on the change in legislation.  As I said, in not in complete disagreeance.  I'm all ears.  I'm not seeing the hypocrisy in that...  Maybe you could point it out.

In the meantime why not get back on topic and comment on the trainwreck in Kansas.
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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Jammer on Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:26 pm

There are only 3 sure things in life, death, taxes and liberals lying.  The premise put forth by the lying liberal as one would suspect, is absolutely 100% - FALSE.

http://www.atr.org/kansas-tax-cuts-are-not-blame-revenue-woes

Now if the question was why does Kansas have a looming deficit, there are probably several contributing factors such as:

Bad data being used
Taxpayer behavior being changed due to Obama's influence
Possibly taking too large of incremental steps or poor implementation of a sound plan

However, there is zero evidence that the supply side economic policies and Brownback's overall strategy are flawed.  There are only lying liberals telling each other the same lie over and over again hoping that uniformed people will believe them.

Now if you want to argue a premise, why not argue the premise that the progressive liberal socialism plan of the democrat party has a 100% failure rate.  It has never created wealth nor built a country.  It has only been implemented by parasites on a host country and used to redistribute the wealth created by others until it is depleted.
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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Dr. Evil on Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:14 pm

Jammer wrote:There are only 3 sure things in life, death, taxes and liberals lying.  The premise put forth by the lying liberal as one would suspect, is absolutely 100% - FALSE.

http://www.atr.org/kansas-tax-cuts-are-not-blame-revenue-woes

Now if the question was why does Kansas have a looming deficit, there are probably several contributing factors such as:

Bad data being used
Taxpayer behavior being changed due to Obama's influence
Possibly taking too large of incremental steps or poor implementation of a sound plan

However, there is zero evidence that the supply side economic policies and Brownback's overall strategy are flawed.  There are only lying liberals telling each other the same lie over and over again hoping that uniformed people will believe them.

Now if you want to argue a premise, why not argue the premise that the progressive liberal socialism plan of the democrat party has a 100% failure rate.  It has never created wealth nor built a country.  It has only been implemented by parasites on a host country and used to redistribute the wealth created by others until it is depleted.

Liberal lies???

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2015/01/30/kansas-taxes-47m-less-than-expected-in-january-complicating-already-strained/

 I love how every time you clowns hear something you don't want to hear, you automatically pawn it off as "liberal media" our some variation thereof.

Even FAUX News isn't stupid enough to try to doll up this pig.

Budget gaps in this and the next fiscal year arose after lawmakers aggressively cut personal income taxes in 2012 and 2013 at Brownback's urging to stimulate the economy. The state dropped its top rate by 29 percent and exempted the owners of 191,000 businesses altogether.


Sorry, better luck next time...
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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Jammer on Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:46 pm

Liberal Liar wrote:It appears that they found OZ instead, and the fake wizard rambling on about the benefits of supply side economics.

"Experiment" probably isn't quite the right word. This theory has been tested time and time again, with no success. Look at the pooch screw we had under the Bush tax cuts.... When will we learn that Reaganomics is a farce?

This was the liberal lie.  The selling of their socialist agenda by issuing false premises.  Nobody is denying there is a deficit in the state finances in Kansas.  But it has nothing to do with supply side economics not working.  That is pure lying liberal bullshit.

There is also no denying that liberals must lie in order to speak, otherwise they would be arguing against their own evil socialist agenda.  These people are evil and need to be pointed out when you see them on the street as the slime bags who are trying to destroy our country.
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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Dr. Evil on Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:48 pm

At least CNN, in all their "liberal" glory, was willing to throw them a little bone:

The tax-cut package was supposed to boost the Kansas economy and small businesses. Problem is, that hasn't happened. At least not yet, although the effects of tax cuts can take years to materialize.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/11/pf/taxes/kansas-tax-cuts/
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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Dr. Evil on Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:54 pm

Jammer wrote:
Liberal Liar wrote:It appears that they found OZ instead, and the fake wizard rambling on about the benefits of supply side economics.

"Experiment" probably isn't quite the right word. This theory has been tested time and time again, with no success. Look at the pooch screw we had under the Bush tax cuts.... When will we learn that Reaganomics is a farce?

This was the liberal lie.  The selling of their socialist agenda by issuing false premises.  Nobody is denying there is a deficit in the state finances in Kansas.  But it has nothing to do with supply side economics not working.  That is pure lying liberal bullshit.

There is also no denying that liberals must lie in order to speak, otherwise they would be arguing against their own evil socialist agenda.  These people are evil and need to be pointed out when you see them on the street as the slime bags who are trying to destroy our country.

So you are saying FAUX News is lying?
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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Skeptical on Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:29 pm

Just when I was starting to think the financial planning advisor was correct telling me my constant debt would be there UNTIL I LEARN TO NOT SPEND MORE THAN WHAT THE JOB BRINGS IN it seems he was terribly wrong and is the fault of supply side economics!

Even though he told many individuals/families/ businesses and even city/county/state governments suffer this problem because there is a lack of paying attention to outgo.

But, personnel are safe in their positions, it fault of supply side economics!

I bet that financial planning advisor had better wise up, huh?
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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Jammer on Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:18 pm

Skeptical wrote:Just when I was starting to think the financial planning advisor was correct telling me my constant debt would be there UNTIL I LEARN TO NOT SPEND MORE THAN WHAT THE JOB BRINGS IN it seems he was terribly wrong and is the fault of supply side economics!

Even though he told many individuals/families/ businesses and even city/county/state governments suffer this problem because there is a lack of paying attention to outgo.

But, personnel are safe in their positions, it fault of supply side economics!

I bet that financial planning advisor had better wise up, huh?

Us conservatives need to learn not to engage these radical socialists on their FALSE premises.  Whenever we argue based upon their FALSE premise also known as a liberal lie, we almost always end up inadvertently helping them sell their agenda by giving credence to their FALSE premise.  If we want to debate these assholes, and I am not sure where the value is in that, we must reframe the premise to avoid giving them the "home field" advantage.

Their tactics are right out of Saul Alinsky's Rule for Radicals.  We need to understand how these evil people push their agenda and not play into their hands.  These are truly evil people intent on destroying American and our way of life.
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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Dr. Evil on Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:32 pm

Skeptical wrote:Just when I was starting to think the financial planning advisor was correct telling me my constant debt would be there UNTIL I LEARN TO NOT SPEND MORE THAN WHAT THE JOB BRINGS IN it seems he was terribly wrong and is the fault of supply side economics!

Even though he told many individuals/families/ businesses and even city/county/state governments suffer this problem because there is a lack of paying attention to outgo.

But, personnel are safe in their positions, it fault of supply side economics!

I bet that financial planning advisor had better wise up, huh?

Let me tell you a little story about my life. About four months ago my brother and I had to sit down and make a really tough decision. He is renting a few acres on his own and is using my equipment to do it. I told him I wanted to cut my exposure but he disagreed. "We'll just have to find somewhere to make some cuts"

The thing is that he lives by the conservative fallacy that you can cut your way out of anything, but he was oblivious to the fact that we were already running as lean as we could. I couldn't not buy seed. I couldn't skimp on fuel. Our equipment was an almost perfect balance. It wasn't a spending issue, it was a revenue issue. We had the luxury of having the ability to simply bow out if we chose to do so.

Obviously you have to make more than you spend, but cutting isn't always the answer.
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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Dr. Evil on Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:37 pm

Jammer wrote:
Skeptical wrote:Just when I was starting to think the financial planning advisor was correct telling me my constant debt would be there UNTIL I LEARN TO NOT SPEND MORE THAN WHAT THE JOB BRINGS IN it seems he was terribly wrong and is the fault of supply side economics!

Even though he told many individuals/families/ businesses and even city/county/state governments suffer this problem because there is a lack of paying attention to outgo.

But, personnel are safe in their positions, it fault of supply side economics!

I bet that financial planning advisor had better wise up, huh?

Us conservatives need to learn not to engage these radical socialists on their FALSE premises.  Whenever we argue based upon their FALSE premise also known as a liberal lie, we almost always end up inadvertently helping them sell their agenda by giving credence to their FALSE premise.  If we want to debate these assholes, and I am not sure where the value is in that, we must reframe the premise to avoid giving them the "home field" advantage.

Their tactics are right out of Saul Alinsky's Rule for Radicals.  We need to understand how these evil people push their agenda and not play into their hands.  These are truly evil people intent on destroying American and our way of life.

Brownback and his ring of retards seem to be doing a fine job of destroying the American way of life...
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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Jammer on Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:49 pm

We need to understand what these people are trying to accomplish with their rhetoric.  They have a plan and are sticking to it, albeit some of them are really stupid and are merely useful idiots for the progressive socialist democrats who are advancing socialism in this country.  This entire thread has one purpose and that is to demean free market capitalism and the principles of supply side economics.  


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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Skeptical on Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:54 pm

Dr. Jones wrote:    Let me tell you a little story about my life.  About four months ago my brother and I had to sit down and make a really tough decision.  He is renting a few acres on his own and is using my equipment to do it.  I told him I wanted to cut my exposure but he disagreed.  "We'll just have to find somewhere to make some cuts"

The thing is that he lives by the conservative fallacy that you can cut your way out of anything, but he was oblivious to the fact that we were already running as lean as we could.  I couldn't not buy seed.  I couldn't skimp on fuel.  Our equipment was an almost perfect balance.  It wasn't a spending issue, it was a revenue issue.  We had the luxury of having the ability to simply bow out if we chose to do so.

Obviously you have to make more than you spend, but cutting isn't always the answer.

Oh my, are you saying as income stays the same or decreases spending has to stay the same or  increase???

The old lberal belief that spending on top of more spending will result in prosperity.
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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Dr. Evil on Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:57 pm

Jammer wrote:We need to understand what these people are trying to accomplish with their rhetoric.  They have a plan and are sticking to it, albeit some of them are really stupid and are merely useful idiots for the progressive socialist democrats who are advancing socialism in this country.  This entire thread has one purpose and that is to demean free market capitalism and the principles of supply side economics.  



I'm not sure who you are taking to, or what you are talking about, but I would sure be interested in hearing your thoughts on the assertion by FAUX News that Brownback has created a real mess, and what he should do to fix it.  Everybody seems to be missing that point.
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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Dr. Evil on Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:22 pm

Skeptical wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:    Let me tell you a little story about my life.  About four months ago my brother and I had to sit down and make a really tough decision.  He is renting a few acres on his own and is using my equipment to do it.  I told him I wanted to cut my exposure but he disagreed.  "We'll just have to find somewhere to make some cuts"

The thing is that he lives by the conservative fallacy that you can cut your way out of anything, but he was oblivious to the fact that we were already running as lean as we could.  I couldn't not buy seed.  I couldn't skimp on fuel.  Our equipment was an almost perfect balance.  It wasn't a spending issue, it was a revenue issue.  We had the luxury of having the ability to simply bow out if we chose to do so.

Obviously you have to make more than you spend, but cutting isn't always the answer.

Oh my, are you saying as income stays the same or decreases spending has to stay the same or  increase???

Whose ass did you pull the "increase" part from? Yes there are many instances where income decreases while spending stays the same. Some refer to this phenomenon as "running in the red". It obviously isn't a good long term plan, but it happens while you are working at shoring things up or maintaining market share through a rough strech.


The old lberal belief that spending on top of more spending will result in prosperity.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, congratulations.

In this particular case, income was cut in a very intentional way, with no plan as to how to offset the lost revenue. This was extremely foolish, any idiot could have seen that.

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Re: The Brownback Experiment

Post  Dr. Evil on Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:20 pm

Alleycat wrote:How about California one of the highest taxation states that is constantly on the edge of fiscal disaster?  How about Detroit high taxes, Democrat corruption and Union irresponsibility ? Detroit drove it's manufacturers out and now it is a bankrupt wastelan.

California has been doing a fine job as of late, Brownback should be taking notes.  

I wouldn't say that Detroit's problems had as much to do with high taxes there as it had to do with other states being willing to give away the farm to get manufacturers to relocate.  It really worked well for them though, carrying the torch for cheaper labor across the country, then everybody went broke.  Including them.... brilliant.  Then the same people they shiste on bailed them out.  What a beautiful country.
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