The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

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The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Skeptical on Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:56 pm



Very well could become a political issue so figure it belongs in National Politics

Should the school decide not to honor the request for the student to wear the Hijab is the ruling based on Islamaphobia (which no doubt will be mentioned) or because of racia/ethnic/ religious discrimination or just continuance of the rules and regulations of the Citadal?



The Citadel is considering a request from an admitted student that she be allowed to wear a hijab in keeping with her Muslim faith, a move that would be an unprecedented exception to the school's longstanding uniform requirements.

If the request for the traditional Muslim hair covering is granted, it apparently would be the first exception made to the Citadel's uniform, which all cadets at the storied public military college in South Carolina are required to wear at nearly all times. (At beaches, for example, college rules stipulate that, "Cadets will change into appropriate swimwear upon arrival and change back into uniform when departing.") A spokeswoman said that to her knowledge, in its nearly 175-year history, the school has never granted a religious, or other, accommodation that resulted in a change to the uniform.

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/the-citadel-considers-first-ever-uniform-exception-allowing-a-muslim-hijab-1.404577

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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Gomezz Adddams on Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:22 pm

Skeptical wrote:

Very well could become a political issue so figure it belongs in National Politics

Should the school decide not to honor the request for the student to wear the Hijab is the ruling based on Islamaphobia (which no doubt will be mentioned) or because of racia/ethnic/ religious discrimination or just continuance of the rules and regulations of the Citadal?



The Citadel is considering a request from an admitted student that she be allowed to wear a hijab in keeping with her Muslim faith, a move that would be an unprecedented exception to the school's longstanding uniform requirements.

If the request for the traditional Muslim hair covering is granted, it apparently would be the first exception made to the Citadel's uniform, which all cadets at the storied public military college in South Carolina are required to wear at nearly all times. (At beaches, for example, college rules stipulate that, "Cadets will change into appropriate swimwear upon arrival and change back into uniform when departing.") A spokeswoman said that to her knowledge, in its nearly 175-year history, the school has never granted a religious, or other, accommodation that resulted in a change to the uniform.

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/the-citadel-considers-first-ever-uniform-exception-allowing-a-muslim-hijab-1.404577


I guess it could have been a transgender student requesting to pee in the other teams restrooms and shower in their showers.
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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Dr. Evil on Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:45 pm

Seems pretty self explanatory to me. 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/mili_rel.htm

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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Gomezz Adddams on Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:30 am

Dr. Jones wrote:Seems pretty self explanatory to me. 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/mili_rel.htm

FYI, the Citadel is not US Military, it's a public military college in South Carolina and as such it's uniform requirements are probably not covered by Department of Defense regulations. Sheesh.
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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Dr. Evil on Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:13 am

Gomezz Adddams wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:Seems pretty self explanatory to me. 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/mili_rel.htm

FYI, the Citadel is not US Military, it's a public military college in South Carolina and as such it's uniform requirements are probably not covered by Department of Defense regulations. Sheesh.


Probably not?  My azz...


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senior_Military_College


Sheesh indeed. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


Better luck next time...

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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Gomezz Adddams on Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:20 am

Dr. Jones wrote:
Gomezz Adddams wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:Seems pretty self explanatory to me. 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/mili_rel.htm

FYI, the Citadel is not US Military, it's a public military college in South Carolina and as such it's uniform requirements are probably not covered by Department of Defense regulations. Sheesh.


Probably not?  My azz...


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senior_Military_College


Sheesh indeed. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


Better luck next time...

The Citadel Cadets are not in the US Military nor do they possess officer commissions just because they are required to take only one ROTC course per semester. They are not required to work toward a commission or accept one if offered. Until they are commissioned they are not in the military. Oversight of the Senior Military Colleges comes from the individual States in which they are located not from the DoD which runs the US Military Academies. It must suck to be you.

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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Dr. Evil on Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:33 am

Gomezz Adddams wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:
Gomezz Adddams wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:Seems pretty self explanatory to me. 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/mili_rel.htm

FYI, the Citadel is not US Military, it's a public military college in South Carolina and as such it's uniform requirements are probably not covered by Department of Defense regulations. Sheesh.


Probably not?  My azz...


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senior_Military_College


Sheesh indeed. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


Better luck next time...

The Citadel Cadets are not in the US Military nor do they possess officer commissions just because they are required to take only one ROTC course per semester. They are not required to work toward a commission or accept one if offered. Until they are commissioned they are not in the military. Oversight of the Senior Military Colleges comes from the individual States in which they are located not from the DoD which runs the US Military Academies. It must suck to be you.

That's not what I've read,  but I guess it's your story...

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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Gomezz Adddams on Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:36 am

Speaking of the Citadel Cadets, a cadet artillery battery fired on the Union steamship Star of the West as it attempted to reinforce Ft Sumter. I'm surprised that there haven't been calls to remove their school flag, Big Red, like there were to remove the Battle Flag of the Army of North Virginia that South Carolina flew over the Statehouse.

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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Gomezz Adddams on Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:39 am

Dr. Jones wrote:
Gomezz Adddams wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:
Gomezz Adddams wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:Seems pretty self explanatory to me. 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/mili_rel.htm

FYI, the Citadel is not US Military, it's a public military college in South Carolina and as such it's uniform requirements are probably not covered by Department of Defense regulations. Sheesh.


Probably not?  My azz...


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senior_Military_College


Sheesh indeed. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


Better luck next time...

The Citadel Cadets are not in the US Military nor do they possess officer commissions just because they are required to take only one ROTC course per semester. They are not required to work toward a commission or accept one if offered. Until they are commissioned they are not in the military. Oversight of the Senior Military Colleges comes from the individual States in which they are located not from the DoD which runs the US Military Academies. It must suck to be you.

That's not what I've read,  but I guess it's your story...

Not only does your reading comprehension suck you aren't reading the correct information: From the Citadel's own website:

The ROTC Departments at The Citadel offer commissioning opportunities in all branches of the armed services. While every cadet must successfully complete a course in one of four ROTC departments each semester, cadets are not required to work toward a ROTC commission, or to accept a ROTC commission should it be offered.

http://www.citadel.edu/root/rotc


Last edited by Gomezz Adddams on Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Dr. Evil on Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:45 am

Gomezz Adddams wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:
Gomezz Adddams wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:
Gomezz Adddams wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:Seems pretty self explanatory to me. 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/mili_rel.htm

FYI, the Citadel is not US Military, it's a public military college in South Carolina and as such it's uniform requirements are probably not covered by Department of Defense regulations. Sheesh.


Probably not?  My azz...


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senior_Military_College


Sheesh indeed. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


Better luck next time...

The Citadel Cadets are not in the US Military nor do they possess officer commissions just because they are required to take only one ROTC course per semester. They are not required to work toward a commission or accept one if offered. Until they are commissioned they are not in the military. Oversight of the Senior Military Colleges comes from the individual States in which they are located not from the DoD which runs the US Military Academies. It must suck to be you.

That's not what I've read,  but I guess it's your story...

Not only does your reading comprehension you aren't reading the correct information: From the Citadel's own website:

The ROTC Departments at The Citadel offer commissioning opportunities in all branches of the armed services. While every cadet must successfully complete a course in one of four ROTC departments each semester, cadets are not required to work toward a ROTC commission, or to accept a ROTC commission should it be offered.

http://www.citadel.edu/root/rotc
I don't see anything about their uniforms.

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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Skeptical on Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:00 am

Gomezz Adddams wrote:The Citadel Cadets are not in the US Military nor do they possess officer commissions just because they are required to take only one ROTC course per semester. They are not required to work toward a commission or accept one if offered. Until they are commissioned they are not in the military. Oversight of the Senior Military Colleges comes from the individual States in which they are located not from the DoD which runs the US Military Academies. It must suck to be you.

Offered as a supplement to the above,

The Citadel is best known nationally for its Corps of Cadets, which draws students from about 45 states and a dozen countries. The men and women in the Corps live and study under a classical military system that makes leadership and character development an essential part of the educational experience.

http://www.citadel.edu/root/info

AND

The ROTC Departments at The Citadel offer commissioning opportunities in all branches of the armed services. While every cadet must successfully complete a course in one of four ROTC departments each semester, cadets are not required to work toward a ROTC commission, or to accept a ROTC commission should it be offered

http://www.citadel.edu/root/rotc
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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Gomezz Adddams on Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:27 am

Dr. Jones wrote:
Gomezz Adddams wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:
Gomezz Adddams wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:
Gomezz Adddams wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:Seems pretty self explanatory to me. 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/mili_rel.htm

FYI, the Citadel is not US Military, it's a public military college in South Carolina and as such it's uniform requirements are probably not covered by Department of Defense regulations. Sheesh.


Probably not?  My azz...


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senior_Military_College


Sheesh indeed. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


Better luck next time...

The Citadel Cadets are not in the US Military nor do they possess officer commissions just because they are required to take only one ROTC course per semester. They are not required to work toward a commission or accept one if offered. Until they are commissioned they are not in the military. Oversight of the Senior Military Colleges comes from the individual States in which they are located not from the DoD which runs the US Military Academies. It must suck to be you.

That's not what I've read,  but I guess it's your story...

Not only does your reading comprehension you aren't reading the correct information: From the Citadel's own website:

The ROTC Departments at The Citadel offer commissioning opportunities in all branches of the armed services. While every cadet must successfully complete a course in one of four ROTC departments each semester, cadets are not required to work toward a ROTC commission, or to accept a ROTC commission should it be offered.

http://www.citadel.edu/root/rotc
I don't see anything about their uniforms.

Since oversight of the Citadel is under the control of the State of SC, I would make the logical leap that curriculum, dress codes, uniforms and regulations would be controlled by the Citadel with the authority given to them by the State of SC. The same goes for the other State military academies.

FWIW. The Citadel commission rate is 29% of graduates. Assuming all cadets of West Point accept their commissions, the graduation rate at West Point is 80%.
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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Dr. Evil on Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:34 am

You're still missing the point.  These military colleges are accredited by the US military and required to follow similar guidelines as full military.  Military guidelines allow religous apparel to be warn as long as it does not interfere with carrying out your duty.

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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Gomezz Adddams on Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:45 am

Dr. Jones wrote:You're still missing the point.  These military colleges are accredited by the US military and required to follow similar guidelines as full military.  Military guidelines allow religous apparel to be warn as long as it does not interfere with carrying out your duty.

The point you are missing is that while The Citadel may follow some DoD uniform guidelines, they and they alone have the final authority to determine the wearing of the hijab at their school, not the DoD.
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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Dr. Evil on Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:49 am

Gomezz Adddams wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:You're still missing the point.  These military colleges are accredited by the US military and required to follow similar guidelines as full military.  Military guidelines allow religous apparel to be warn as long as it does not interfere with carrying out your duty.

The point you are missing is that while The Citadel may follow some DoD uniform guidelines, they and they alone have the final authority to determine the wearing of the hijab at their school, not the DoD.
And the DoD has final say as to whether The Citadel is an accredited military school.

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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Skeptical on Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:00 am

Dr. Jones wrote:
Gomezz Adddams wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:You're still missing the point.  These military colleges are accredited by the US military and required to follow similar guidelines as full military.  Military guidelines allow religous apparel to be warn as long as it does not interfere with carrying out your duty.

The point you are missing is that while The Citadel may follow some DoD uniform guidelines, they and they alone have the final authority to determine the wearing of the hijab at their school, not the DoD.
And the DoD has final say as to whether The Citadel is an accredited military school.

Citation or source of this claim please.
(Or an official organizational chart of the Department of Defense showing Citadel's placement on said chart)


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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Gomezz Adddams on Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:01 am

Dr. Jones wrote:
Gomezz Adddams wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:You're still missing the point.  These military colleges are accredited by the US military and required to follow similar guidelines as full military.  Military guidelines allow religous apparel to be warn as long as it does not interfere with carrying out your duty.

The point you are missing is that while The Citadel may follow some DoD uniform guidelines, they and they alone have the final authority to determine the wearing of the hijab at their school, not the DoD.
And the DoD has final say as to whether The Citadel is an accredited military school.

Wrong, The Citadel existed long before ROTC and I suspect it would continue to exist if the DoD shut down the ROTC tomorrow.
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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Dr. Evil on Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:19 am

In the end The Citadel will likely have the final say.  If they choose to not allow her to wear a hijab it would be a direct violation of the principles of all the armed forces, which happens to be the same institutions this college claims it is preparing the vast majority of them for.  To say that the decision is entirely in their hands is facetious.  The standard is set.  I guess we'll see if they choose to ignore it, and if they do what the ratifications will be.  The game is theirs to lose.

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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Skeptical on Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:26 am

Dr. Jones wrote:In the end The Citadel will likely have the final say.  If they choose to not allow her to wear a hijab it would be a direct violation of the principles of all the armed forces, which happens to be the same institutions this college is preparing the vast majority of them for.  To say that the decision is entirely in their hands is facetious.  The standard is set.  I guess we'll see if they choose to ignore it, and if they do, what the ratifications will be.

Other than a recent exception granted by the Army allowing a member of the Sikh to wear a beard and turban in uniform while on active duty how many other military members are not required to follow the uniform requirements of their respective assigned branch of service?
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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Dr. Evil on Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:31 am

Dr. Jones wrote:Seems pretty self explanatory to me. 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/mili_rel.htm
Been there,  done that.

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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Skeptical on Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:58 am

Dr. Jones wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:Seems pretty self explanatory to me. 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/mili_rel.htm
Been there,  done that.

REALLY???     Here is the ONE exception made recently.

For close to a decade, Simratpal Singh felt torn between the ideals of his faith and those of the U.S. Army.
No more.

The Army has granted Capt. Singh, a Sikh, permission to serve while wearing a turban over his long hair and a beard with his uniform.

He is the first active duty soldier to be given such permission, according to The Sikh Coalition, the largest Sikh American advocacy organization in the United States.
had a childhood fascination with the Army," Singh told CNN. "The Sikh concept of standing up for the weak and defending the defenseless is very much at the core of the Sikh psyche, and those are same ideals that the U.S. Army upholds."

Singh initially asked the Army for an exemption in October and was granted a temporary exemption in December. As it was about to expire in February, he was asked to report for additional gas and helmet testing, beyond the basic testing typically required.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/04/us/sikh-army-captain-simratpal-singh-beard-turban/index.html

PLEASE BE SO KIND AS TO CITE ALL THE OTHERS YOU MAY HAVE KNOWLEDGE.


FYI, The Citadel is no more a part of the military (even though some attendees are there on a contracted a ROTC scholarship and some other graduates do go on to accept a commission in the service of their choice) than a public high school having a Junior ROTC program.

Still waiting for you to show by way of a DOD organizational chart where the Citadel is located.

You really need to get out of your mother's basement more and learn about the real world instead of listening to the fairy tales being spread by the jealous liberals/progressives/ socialists!


Last edited by Skeptical on Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Dr. Evil on Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:11 pm

Skeptical wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:Seems pretty self explanatory to me. 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/mili_rel.htm
Been there,  done that.

REALLY???  Here is the ONE exception made recently

For close to a decade, Simratpal Singh felt torn between the ideals of his faith and those of the U.S. Army.
No more.

The Army has granted Capt. Singh, a Sikh, permission to serve while wearing a turban over his long hair and a beard with his uniform.

He is the first active duty soldier to be given such permission, according to The Sikh Coalition, the largest Sikh American advocacy organization in the United States.
had a childhood fascination with the Army," Singh told CNN. "The Sikh concept of standing up for the weak and defending the defenseless is very much at the core of the Sikh psyche, and those are same ideals that the U.S. Army upholds."

Singh initially asked the Army for an exemption in October and was granted a temporary exemption in December. As it was about to expire in February, he was asked to report for additional gas and helmet testing, beyond the basic testing typically required.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/04/us/sikh-army-captain-simratpal-singh-beard-turban/index.html

PLEASE BE SO KIND AS TO CITE ALL THE OTHERS YOU MAY HAVE KNOWLEDGE.


The Citadel is no more a part of the military (even though some attendees are there on a contracted a ROTC scholarship and some other graduates do go on to accept a commission in the service of their choice) than a public high school having a Junior ROTC program.

Still waiting for you to show by way of a DOD organizational chart where the Citadel is located.

You really need to get out of your mother's basement more and learn about the real world instead of listening to the fairy tales being spread by the jealous liberals/progressives/ socialists!
I guess if you don't hold much regard for The Citadel that's fine.  The army sure seems to.  Who gives a fucck about your organizational chart?  Not me.  Find it yourself

http://m.goarmy.com/rotc/courses-and-colleges/military-colleges.m.html

I can't live in my mother's basement.  My dad lives there.   I couldn't live with him.  Not sure what this has to do with anything though.  Seems pretty desperate to me

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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Dr. Evil on Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:12 pm

Skeptical wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:
Dr. Jones wrote:Seems pretty self explanatory to me. 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/mili_rel.htm
Been there,  done that.

REALLY???     Here is the ONE exception made recently

For close to a decade, Simratpal Singh felt torn between the ideals of his faith and those of the U.S. Army.
No more.

The Army has granted Capt. Singh, a Sikh, permission to serve while wearing a turban over his long hair and a beard with his uniform.

He is the first active duty soldier to be given such permission, according to The Sikh Coalition, the largest Sikh American advocacy organization in the United States.
had a childhood fascination with the Army," Singh told CNN. "The Sikh concept of standing up for the weak and defending the defenseless is very much at the core of the Sikh psyche, and those are same ideals that the U.S. Army upholds."

Singh initially asked the Army for an exemption in October and was granted a temporary exemption in December. As it was about to expire in February, he was asked to report for additional gas and helmet testing, beyond the basic testing typically required.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/04/us/sikh-army-captain-simratpal-singh-beard-turban/index.html

PLEASE BE SO KIND AS TO CITE ALL THE OTHERS YOU MAY HAVE KNOWLEDGE.


The Citadel is no more a part of the military (even though some attendees are there on a contracted a ROTC scholarship and some other graduates do go on to accept a commission in the service of their choice) than a public high school having a Junior ROTC program.

Still waiting for you to show by way of a DOD organizational chart where the Citadel is located.

You really need to get out of your mother's basement more and learn about the real world instead of listening to the fairy tales being spread by the jealous liberals/progressives/ socialists!
That's not one exception.  Try reading it again.  Ask Gomerr to help you if you need to with some of the bigger words.

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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Skeptical on Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:23 pm

Dr. Jones wrote: I guess if you don't hold much regard for The Citadel that's fine.  The army sure seems to.  Who gives a fucck about your organizational chart?  Not me.  Find it yourself

http://m.goarmy.com/rotc/courses-and-colleges/military-colleges.m.html

I can't live in my mother's basement.  My dad lives there.   I couldn't live with him.  Not sure what this has to do with anything though.  Seems pretty desperate to me

Hey, they are not my organizational charts.  In case you recall you are the one who strongly implied the Citadel was controlled by the Department of Defense.  The charts I managed to find do not show the citadel, so waiting for your proof that the citadel comes under the control of the DOD since you say the DOD will have the final say on this hijab business.

Why do you continue to deny that Citadel is a public state sponsored education facility with no connection to the formal military other than using a strong adherence to ROTC regimen?
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Re: The Citadel considers first-ever uniform exception: allowing a Muslim hijab

Post  Dr. Evil on Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:29 pm

Dr. Jones wrote:In the end The Citadel will likely have the final say.  If they choose to not allow her to wear a hijab it would be a direct violation of the principles of all the armed forces, which happens to be the same institutions this college claims it is preparing the vast majority of them for.  To say that the decision is entirely in their hands is facetious.  The standard is set.  I guess we'll see if they choose to ignore it, and if they do what the ratifications will be.  The game is theirs to lose.
I don't

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