Tax Reform

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Tax Reform

Post  Darth Cheney on Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:39 pm

This tax reform is getting worse and worse so I hope they pass it soon before they stink it up even worse. That said, I do believe it is an improvement over existing tax policy and though I may not benefit greatly, I do believe our business needs to be taxed at lower rates to be competitive. I do believe the real solution is to gut the tax code in its entirety and instead implement a national sales tax levied against all goods at the point of sale. We could get rid of the IRS and EVERYONE would have equal skin in the game and thereby voting to increase taxes on only the rich.

To all the liberals out there bemoaning how this tax reform benefits the rich...IT IS THE RICH THAT PAYS THE MAJORITY OF THE TAXES COLLECTED IN THIS COUNTRY. The slugs who pay nothing and demand everything cry the loudest. Maybe we could deport some of these slugs with the DACA criminals that hopefully are thrown out.
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Re: Tax Reform

Post  Jammer on Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:23 pm

Darth Cheney wrote:This tax reform is getting worse and worse so I hope they pass it soon before they stink it up even worse. That said, I do believe it is an improvement over existing tax policy and though I may not benefit greatly, I do believe our business needs to be taxed at lower rates to be competitive. I do believe the real solution is to gut the tax code in its entirety and instead implement a national sales tax levied against all goods at the point of sale. We could get rid of the IRS and EVERYONE would have equal skin in the game and thereby voting to increase taxes on only the rich.

To all the liberals out there bemoaning how this tax reform benefits the rich...IT IS THE RICH THAT PAYS THE MAJORITY OF THE TAXES COLLECTED IN THIS COUNTRY. The slugs who pay nothing and demand everything cry the loudest. Maybe we could deport some of these slugs with the DACA criminals that hopefully are thrown out.

At this point I have mixed feelings about the tax reform legislation.  While I am quite disappointed in the actual legislation, I recognize that it is at least a small step mostly in the right direction.  As a result, perhaps it will be easier to get true reform in a year or two with the starting point being just a little closer to the finish line.

In my opinion, there are several major obstacles that got in the way.  The first and most obvious is the socialist demonrat party.  Their objections are expected as they hate this country and want to turn it into their communist utopia.  The second are the RINO Republicans who are not all that much better.  But the most disappointing to the me is the third obstacle and that is the well intended conservative leaning Republicans who really don't understand conservative principles.   As a result, they are of minimal value in the process as they don't understand the proper principles for sound government.

Again in my opinion, there should be two basic principles or lines along the road to true tax reform.  all tax legislation should stay within these boundaries.  These conservative principles are:

1.  The single purpose or role of a tax policy is to "FUND THE PROPER ROLE OF GOVERNMENT".  Tax policy should never ever attempt to influence behavior.
2.  "FAIR FOR ONE - FAIR FOR ALL"

Therefore, as a conservative it is quite easy for me to say that the proposed reform package did not stay between those lines.  Almost every aspect of it seems to cross those boundaries often and some times to great distances.

I still remain hopeful that someday Congress will close all the federal departments and bureaucracies that have no legitimate function in what should be our system of Federalism.  And once that is done, we will then end up with either the FAIR TAX or the FLAT TAX.  I can live with either, but certainly prefer the Fair Tax.  
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Re: Tax Reform

Post  Skeptical on Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:36 pm

Darth Cheney wrote:This tax reform is getting worse and worse so I hope they pass it soon before they stink it up even worse. That said, I do believe it is an improvement over existing tax policy and though I may not benefit greatly, I do believe our business needs to be taxed at lower rates to be competitive. I do believe the real solution is to gut the tax code in its entirety and instead implement a national sales tax levied against all goods at the point of sale. We could get rid of the IRS and EVERYONE would have equal skin in the game and thereby voting to increase taxes on only the rich.

To all the liberals out there bemoaning how this tax reform benefits the rich...IT IS THE RICH THAT PAYS THE MAJORITY OF THE TAXES COLLECTED IN THIS COUNTRY. The slugs who pay nothing and demand everything cry the loudest. Maybe we could deport some of these slugs with the DACA criminals that hopefully are thrown out.

I could go along with a certain percentage flat tax for all people having any income from any source and the would assure everybody has skin in the game.  I am also open to the national sales tax.  However, at this point in history and the welfare society the politicians have created the outcry from certain folks would be the same for both National Sales Tax and Flat Tax, "The poor will bear the brunt of the burden".  There will anguish and gnashing of teeth that food and possibly other items should not be taxed.
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Re: Tax Reform

Post  Jammer on Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:02 am

Skeptical wrote:
Darth Cheney wrote:This tax reform is getting worse and worse so I hope they pass it soon before they stink it up even worse. That said, I do believe it is an improvement over existing tax policy and though I may not benefit greatly, I do believe our business needs to be taxed at lower rates to be competitive. I do believe the real solution is to gut the tax code in its entirety and instead implement a national sales tax levied against all goods at the point of sale. We could get rid of the IRS and EVERYONE would have equal skin in the game and thereby voting to increase taxes on only the rich.

To all the liberals out there bemoaning how this tax reform benefits the rich...IT IS THE RICH THAT PAYS THE MAJORITY OF THE TAXES COLLECTED IN THIS COUNTRY. The slugs who pay nothing and demand everything cry the loudest. Maybe we could deport some of these slugs with the DACA criminals that hopefully are thrown out.

I could go along with a certain percentage flat tax for all people having any income from any source and the would assure everybody has skin in the game.  I am also open to the national sales tax.  However, at this point in history and the welfare society the politicians have created the outcry from certain folks would be the same for both National Sales Tax and Flat Tax, "The poor will bear the brunt of the burden".  There will anguish and gnashing of teeth that food and possibly other items should not be taxed.

You make a very valid point about the difficulty our “welfare society” will make it to attain any true tax reform.  However, this is not the first time this has occurred in the world.

When Romans abandoned self-responsibility, and began to vote in their “own self-interest”, they turned down a fateful destructive path that ended in the demise of the Roman REPUBLIC.  It all began with a Roman politician Clodius who came up with the idea of the “grain dole” to win votes.  He promised the electorate that if they voted for him, he would see that they received grain FREE grain at taxpayer expense.  From that point on, a growing number of Romans embraced the concept that voting for a living was far easier than working for a living.  And we all know how that ended for Rome.

Unfortunately, The United States is on the same path thanks to liberal minded politicians of both political parties.  Our only hope is to restore our Constitution and the framework of government that our Founders established for us.  And that will only happen if we return to our FOUNDING PRINCIPLES.  Unfortunately, very few people understand what principles are let alone what Principles our great country was originally established on.  Principles have been replaced by emotions and “feel good” solutions.  

And that is why I think it is important that conservatives learn what these Founding Principles are and then go out and inform our friends and neighbors about them.
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Re: Tax Reform

Post  Clicker on Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:44 pm

Jammer wrote:
I could go along with a certain percentage flat tax for all people having any income from any source and the would assure everybody has skin in the game.  I am also open to the national sales tax.  However, at this point in history and the welfare society the politicians have created the outcry from certain folks would be the same for both National Sales Tax and Flat Tax, "The poor will bear the brunt of the burden".  There will anguish and gnashing of teeth that food and possibly other items should not be taxed.

You make a very valid point about the difficulty our “welfare society” will make it to attain any true tax reform.  However, this is not the first time this has occurred in the world.

When Romans abandoned self-responsibility, and began to vote in their “own self-interest”, they turned down a fateful destructive path that ended in the demise of the Roman REPUBLIC.  It all began with a Roman politician Clodius who came up with the idea of the “grain dole” to win votes.  He promised the electorate that if they voted for him, he would see that they received grain FREE grain at taxpayer expense.  From that point on, a growing number of Romans embraced the concept that voting for a living was far easier than working for a living.  And we all know how that ended for Rome.

Unfortunately, The United States is on the same path thanks to liberal minded politicians of both political parties.  Our only hope is to restore our Constitution and the framework of government that our Founders established for us.  And that will only happen if we return to our FOUNDING PRINCIPLES.  Unfortunately, very few people understand what principles are let alone what Principles our great country was originally established on.  Principles have been replaced by emotions and “feel good” solutions.  

And that is why I think it is important that conservatives learn what these Founding Principles are and then go out and inform our friends and neighbors about them.
[/quote]
You're right it isn't the first time this has happened. The problem is the liberal establishment has an organized well funded campaign to keep doing the same thing over and over to try and force the country into a socialist condition that puts us completely in a death spiral. Not allowing this to happen has little support among any group other than the most adamant conservatives. Libs shrug off the "not learning from the past" by stating that they have a plan that will allow that and not completely destroy the country. Problem is, they have a really good head start in that direction.
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Re: Tax Reform

Post  Jammer on Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:42 pm

Clicker wrote: You're right it isn't the first time this has happened. The problem is the liberal establishment has an organized well funded campaign to keep doing the same thing over and over to try and force the country into a socialist condition that puts us completely in a death spiral. Not allowing this to happen has little support among any group other than the most adamant conservatives. Libs shrug off the "not learning from the past" by stating that they have a plan that will allow that and not completely destroy the country. Problem is, they have a really good head start in that direction.  

I believe that the country is almost divided 1/3 - 1/3 - 1/3 on this issue.  Roughly 1/3 of Americans are some degree of conservative and are on the right side of this struggle.  Approximately another third are the hard-line communist liberals and their useful idiots and the last third is the clueless middle that don't know which way to turn.

In my opinion, there is absolute zero chance of communicating with the third of the country that falls into the liberal category and it is a complete waste of time talking to them.  Unfortunately, in my opinion conservatives spend all of our time either arguing with these boneheads or "preaching to the choir" (conservatives).  As a result, we for the most part ignore the clueless middle group and that is why we are losing the fight.  We have to begin picking up converts in this area.  

When it comes to the youth of this country, the liberals for the most part control our educational system.  They are churning out useful idiots at an alarming pace.  That alone makes our job very difficult.  We have got to take back our educational system as well as reach out to the youth in any way possible.  The only student group that I see making any serious headway in this effort are the Young Americans for Liberty.  The College Republicans have a few strong chapters, but for the most part they are a bunch of impotent "tailgaters".
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Re: Tax Reform

Post  Jammer on Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:36 am

I am not sure how accurate this poll is.  

http://news.gallup.com/poll/201152/conservative-liberal-gap-continues-narrow-tuesday.aspx

It appears to me that the liberal segment is somewhat understated.  However, overall the numbers are probably directionally correct.  I think that some of the breakdowns by the various groups is what is the most interesting to me.

When you look at the percentage of liberals by level of education, it is apparent that the longer our youth are in school, the more liberal they become.  Assholes like Jackoff Jones would be gleeful at that data as he would proclaim that they are merely more “enlightened”.  However, we know the reality of the situation is that they are more “indoctrinated”.

But another equally troubling thing to me is how the number of older Americans have shown an unexpected and dangerous jump in the percentage of Americans in those age groups that identity as liberal.  This is shocking to me as well as quite a surprise.  I am not sure why this has occurred, but I have some suspicions.

First, I think that as our youth become more liberal and are armed with talking points form the George Soros funded websites, they are having a much stronger influence on their parents and grandparents instead of the other way around.  In addition, older Americans are increasingly becoming less educated about our Constitution and system of government.  I doubt if many could give you a satisfactory answer if you asked them to identify the Principles this country was founded on.

In my opinion, the answer or strategy to correct this is quite clear to me.  We need to:
1.  Take back our educational system
2.  Get out of the house and start talking to our friends and neighbors about these issues.  

What say you?  I would be interested to hear if you see it differently.
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