Proposed Tariffs

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Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:25 pm

I normally have some strong opinions on most issues.   However, I am a little torn over what the conservative position should be on the Trump tariff proposal.  I am all for a level playing field and if other countries are using their government to give their countries an unfair advantage, there is nothing wrong with taking actions to truly level the playing field.

On the other hand, if companies in other countries have a true competitive advantage due to their innovation, manufacturing efficiencies, wage cost structure or whatever then any government intervention on our part is just wrong.  Unfortunately, I don’t know all the details associated with President Trump’s proposal and many of the conservative organizations have not been overly quick to react.

The Heritage Foundation was one of the first that I have seen to come out against them.

https://www.heritage.org/taxes/commentary/trumps-tariffs-would-be-massive-self-inflicted-wound

https://www.heritage.org/press/heritages-tori-whiting-blasts-white-house-tariff-proposal

However, it appears there are many others finally lining up and this tariff proposal just might be as bad as President Trump’s earlier Border Adjustment Tax.

https://www.clubforgrowth.org/free-trade/conservative-allies-urge-president-trump-to-reconsider-aluminum-and-steel-tariffs/#more-34186

https://americansforprosperity.org/steel-aluminum-tariffs-misguided-hurt-american-consumers/

What are your opinions?
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Clicker on Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:34 pm

The EU was formed as a way of avoiding economic wars between the several countries that make up Europe. What it has become since is a tool to impose socialist policies on them all in a blanket fashion. That prevents people voting with their feet when it appears things are getting out of hand in their country. It has fallen afoul the resolve of the British not to allow the imposition of rule from what they have traditionally seen as enemies. Brexit is the result.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:37 pm

Clicker wrote:The EU was formed as a way of avoiding  economic wars between the several countries that make up Europe. What it has become since is a tool to impose socialist policies on them all in a blanket fashion.  That prevents people voting with their feet when it appears things are getting out of hand in their country. It has fallen afoul the resolve of the British not to allow the imposition of rule from what they have traditionally seen as enemies. Brexit is the result.

Not sure if I understand what you mean????
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Clicker on Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:41 pm

Jammer wrote:
Clicker wrote:The EU was formed as a way of avoiding  economic wars between the several countries that make up Europe. What it has become since is a tool to impose socialist policies on them all in a blanket fashion.  That prevents people voting with their feet when it appears things are getting out of hand in their country. It has fallen afoul the resolve of the British not to allow the imposition of rule from what they have traditionally seen as enemies. Brexit is the result.

Not sure if I understand what you mean????
I should have included what I was commenting on.

"On the other hand, if companies in other countries have a true competitive advantage due to their innovation, manufacturing efficiencies, wage cost structure or whatever then any government intervention on our part is just wrong."
EU was formed to cease competition within European countries and focus on the US. Airbus is possibly the most successful in that sense. As long as the EU sees our production costs up they have an advantage. Airbus is also heavily subsidized. This tariff action has no direct bearing on the cost of production here but it does send a message that Trump means to take action where he thinks there is an unfair advantage being imposed on us by competing countries.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:19 am

Clicker wrote:
Jammer wrote:
Clicker wrote:The EU was formed as a way of avoiding  economic wars between the several countries that make up Europe. What it has become since is a tool to impose socialist policies on them all in a blanket fashion.  That prevents people voting with their feet when it appears things are getting out of hand in their country. It has fallen afoul the resolve of the British not to allow the imposition of rule from what they have traditionally seen as enemies. Brexit is the result.

Not sure if I understand what you mean????
I should have included what I was commenting on.  

"On the other hand, if companies in other countries have a true competitive advantage due to their innovation, manufacturing efficiencies, wage cost structure or whatever then any government intervention on our part is just wrong."
EU was formed to cease competition within European countries and focus on the US. Airbus is possibly the most successful in that sense. As long as the EU sees our production costs up they have an advantage.  Airbus is also heavily subsidized.  This tariff action has no direct bearing on the cost of production here but it does send a message that Trump means to take action where he thinks there is an unfair advantage being imposed on us by  competing countries.  

But that raise the question: Aren't the proposed tariffs by President Trump broad based and apply to all countries and are NOT targeted to specific offending countries?
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Clicker on Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:18 am

Jammer wrote:
Clicker wrote:
Jammer wrote:
Clicker wrote:The EU was formed as a way of avoiding  economic wars between the several countries that make up Europe. What it has become since is a tool to impose socialist policies on them all in a blanket fashion.  That prevents people voting with their feet when it appears things are getting out of hand in their country. It has fallen afoul the resolve of the British not to allow the imposition of rule from what they have traditionally seen as enemies. Brexit is the result.

Not sure if I understand what you mean????
I should have included what I was commenting on.  

"On the other hand, if companies in other countries have a true competitive advantage due to their innovation, manufacturing efficiencies, wage cost structure or whatever then any government intervention on our part is just wrong."
EU was formed to cease competition within European countries and focus on the US. Airbus is possibly the most successful in that sense. As long as the EU sees our production costs up they have an advantage.  Airbus is also heavily subsidized.  This tariff action has no direct bearing on the cost of production here but it does send a message that Trump means to take action where he thinks there is an unfair advantage being imposed on us by  competing countries.  

But that raise the question:  Aren't the proposed tariffs by President Trump broad based and apply to all countries and are NOT targeted to specific offending countries?

Possibly, but you never know what Trump will say next!! IMO he's simply floating the possibility of imposing tariffs in order to see who squirms and squeals. News this a/m is that the Chinese are squealing mightily. Also learned on Fox this a/m that it costs $20 a ton to ship steel to the us on ships, that adds a lot to the cost. Gotta remember that steel isn't just steel. There are many varieties out there. I also wonder what percentage of the steel in question is "virgin" and not recycled product.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:20 pm

Clicker wrote:
Jammer wrote:
Clicker wrote:
Jammer wrote:
Clicker wrote:The EU was formed as a way of avoiding  economic wars between the several countries that make up Europe. What it has become since is a tool to impose socialist policies on them all in a blanket fashion.  That prevents people voting with their feet when it appears things are getting out of hand in their country. It has fallen afoul the resolve of the British not to allow the imposition of rule from what they have traditionally seen as enemies. Brexit is the result.

Not sure if I understand what you mean????
I should have included what I was commenting on.  

"On the other hand, if companies in other countries have a true competitive advantage due to their innovation, manufacturing efficiencies, wage cost structure or whatever then any government intervention on our part is just wrong."
EU was formed to cease competition within European countries and focus on the US. Airbus is possibly the most successful in that sense. As long as the EU sees our production costs up they have an advantage.  Airbus is also heavily subsidized.  This tariff action has no direct bearing on the cost of production here but it does send a message that Trump means to take action where he thinks there is an unfair advantage being imposed on us by  competing countries.  

But that raise the question:  Aren't the proposed tariffs by President Trump broad based and apply to all countries and are NOT targeted to specific offending countries?

Possibly, but you never know what Trump will say next!! IMO he's simply floating the possibility of imposing tariffs in order to see who squirms and squeals. News this a/m is that the Chinese are squealing mightily.  Also learned on Fox this a/m that it costs $20 a ton to ship steel to the us on ships, that adds a lot to the cost. Gotta remember that steel isn't just steel. There are many varieties out there. I also wonder what percentage of the steel in question is "virgin" and not recycled product.

You are right that Trump's actions/words are often part of his strategy.  However, he has time and time again demonstrated that he doesn't understand the principle of "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".  We will see what happens.  With all the pressure about Mexico and Canada that he has been receiving, I would expect some type of exemption or variance for them.  However, I don't think things are that simple.

As for the Chinese, they are without question the biggest issue facing us in this area.  And I think Trump is right that they have taken advantage of us to a very large degree.  And probably the worst thing about that is not the short term financial implications, but the long term geopolitical and military issues.  We helped the muslims become a formidable adversary from our own stupidity and pocketbook.  It should come as no surprise that we wake up some day and say the same thing about China.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:30 pm

Looks like I will have to back track on my comment about Trump that I made above.  I was just watching his news conference talking about the tariffs and he clearly indicated that they are considering "mirror" tariff rates on countries.  In other words, establishing a tariff rate at exactly the same rate being applied by that country on our exports to them.  
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Clicker on Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:39 pm

Jammer wrote:Looks like I will have to back track on my comment about Trump that I made above.  I was just watching his news conference talking about the tariffs and he clearly indicated that they are considering "mirror" tariff rates on countries.  In other words, establishing a tariff rate at exactly the same rate being applied by that country on our exports to them.  

Trump has always said his actions would be fair and in the best interests of America. There are a lot of folks who are so accustomed to Pols telling lies and half truths that they simply discount Trumps talk track as more of the same from a blowhard. One by one the things Trump has promised and implemented have come to pass. He's lacking Immigration so far and needs help from the party getting it. If the party doesn't come around a lot of their office holders will be looking for jobs in January.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:45 pm

Clicker wrote:
Jammer wrote:Looks like I will have to back track on my comment about Trump that I made above.  I was just watching his news conference talking about the tariffs and he clearly indicated that they are considering "mirror" tariff rates on countries.  In other words, establishing a tariff rate at exactly the same rate being applied by that country on our exports to them.  

Trump has always said his actions would be fair and in the best interests of America. There are a lot of folks who are so accustomed to Pols telling lies and half truths that they simply discount Trumps talk track as more of the same from a blowhard.  One by one the things Trump has promised and implemented have come to pass. He's lacking Immigration so far and needs help from the party getting it.  If the party doesn't come around a lot of their office holders will be looking for jobs in January.

But doesn't that pose another question?  -  Why not start with "mirror tariff" rates?

It would seem that it would appear to be a more fair and realistic proposal.  If that is the case, I would suspect more of the GOP would be in favor of it.  I am not sure where all of the conservative organizations would come down on it.  However, you would seem to have a pretty solid arguing point of a "level playing field".
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Clicker on Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:43 pm

Jammer wrote:
Clicker wrote:
Jammer wrote:Looks like I will have to back track on my comment about Trump that I made above.  I was just watching his news conference talking about the tariffs and he clearly indicated that they are considering "mirror" tariff rates on countries.  In other words, establishing a tariff rate at exactly the same rate being applied by that country on our exports to them.  

Trump has always said his actions would be fair and in the best interests of America. There are a lot of folks who are so accustomed to Pols telling lies and half truths that they simply discount Trumps talk track as more of the same from a blowhard.  One by one the things Trump has promised and implemented have come to pass. He's lacking Immigration so far and needs help from the party getting it.  If the party doesn't come around a lot of their office holders will be looking for jobs in January.

But doesn't that pose another question?  -  Why not start with "mirror tariff" rates?

It would seem that it would appear to be a more fair and realistic proposal.  If that is the case, I would suspect more of the GOP would be in favor of it.  I am not sure where all of the conservative organizations would come down on it.  However, you would seem to have a pretty solid arguing point of a "level playing field".

It's a political device. Hit them with a hard shock value statement then refine it later. Plitiicians do this during campaigns. Trump has a long list of them.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:10 pm

Clicker wrote:
Jammer wrote:
Clicker wrote:
Jammer wrote:Looks like I will have to back track on my comment about Trump that I made above.  I was just watching his news conference talking about the tariffs and he clearly indicated that they are considering "mirror" tariff rates on countries.  In other words, establishing a tariff rate at exactly the same rate being applied by that country on our exports to them.  

Trump has always said his actions would be fair and in the best interests of America. There are a lot of folks who are so accustomed to Pols telling lies and half truths that they simply discount Trumps talk track as more of the same from a blowhard.  One by one the things Trump has promised and implemented have come to pass. He's lacking Immigration so far and needs help from the party getting it.  If the party doesn't come around a lot of their office holders will be looking for jobs in January.

But doesn't that pose another question?  -  Why not start with "mirror tariff" rates?

It would seem that it would appear to be a more fair and realistic proposal.  If that is the case, I would suspect more of the GOP would be in favor of it.  I am not sure where all of the conservative organizations would come down on it.  However, you would seem to have a pretty solid arguing point of a "level playing field".

It's a political device. Hit them with a hard shock value statement then refine it later.  Plitiicians do this during campaigns.  Trump has a long list of them.


Yeah, and it cost him repealing Obamacare.  Think about how many Republicans he offended in the primary to the point where they can't wait to pay him back on some crucial vote.  For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.  Sometimes you just can't afford to be pushing people to the other side of the ledger on you.

Anyhow, I still can't quite figure out the CONSERVATIVE position on these tariffs.  I know one thing, I am on the side of FREE MARKET CAPITALISM, I just can't figure out how to line up on this tariff thing.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Clicker on Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:58 pm

Jammer wrote:
Clicker wrote:
Jammer wrote:
Clicker wrote:
Jammer wrote:Looks like I will have to back track on my comment about Trump that I made above.  I was just watching his news conference talking about the tariffs and he clearly indicated that they are considering "mirror" tariff rates on countries.  In other words, establishing a tariff rate at exactly the same rate being applied by that country on our exports to them.  

Trump has always said his actions would be fair and in the best interests of America. There are a lot of folks who are so accustomed to Pols telling lies and half truths that they simply discount Trumps talk track as more of the same from a blowhard.  One by one the things Trump has promised and implemented have come to pass. He's lacking Immigration so far and needs help from the party getting it.  If the party doesn't come around a lot of their office holders will be looking for jobs in January.

But doesn't that pose another question?  -  Why not start with "mirror tariff" rates?

It would seem that it would appear to be a more fair and realistic proposal.  If that is the case, I would suspect more of the GOP would be in favor of it.  I am not sure where all of the conservative organizations would come down on it.  However, you would seem to have a pretty solid arguing point of a "level playing field".

It's a political device. Hit them with a hard shock value statement then refine it later.  Plitiicians do this during campaigns.  Trump has a long list of them.


Yeah, and it cost him repealing Obamacare.  Think about how many Republicans he offended in the primary to the point where they can't wait to pay him back on some crucial vote.  For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.  Sometimes you just can't afford to be pushing people to the other side of the ledger on you.

Anyhow, I still can't quite figure out the CONSERVATIVE position on these tariffs.  I know one thing, I am on the side of FREE MARKET CAPITALISM, I just can't figure out how to line up on this tariff thing.

He didn't offend Republicans, he offended the establishment lawmakers. The "swamp" if you will. IMO the fix for that is a concerted effort to take 60 vote control of the Senate and keep control of the House. Trump is doing a great ob in the face of opposition from his own party. A media campaign is needed to call for the supermajority in the Senate. It really chaps my hide when lawmakers of the same party oppose Trump.
I am for free market as well, problem is when the first law was passed that restricted or regulated everyday business the free market ceased to exist.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:56 am

Clicker wrote: He didn't offend Republicans, he offended the establishment lawmakers. The "swamp" if you will. IMO the fix for that is a concerted effort to take 60 vote control of the Senate and keep control of the House. Trump is doing a great ob in the face of opposition from his own party. I completely agree with that part of your statement.  However, I will add just one thought and that is how do you get legislation passed in the meantime while you have a razor thin majority in the Senate.  I don't think he helps himself by poking some of these RINOs in the eye every chance he gets.  I still maintain that for ever action there is and equal and opposite reaction.  Hence you have a few of these swamp creatures going out of their way to torpedo Trump.  I am convinced the only reason McCain voted against repealing Obamacare was his hatred for Trump.


A media campaign is needed to call for the supermajority in the Senate. It really chaps my hide when lawmakers of the same party oppose Trump.  And for this media campaign, do you think you can count on ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, FaceBook, Yahoo, Google, The Huffington Post, The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune or any of these other liberal run media outlets to go along with you on this media campaign?  I personally believe the only way we can do this is if we are willing to go out and talk to our neighbors and friends and WIN AT THE DOOR.  Unfortunately, I haven't been able to convince many people that this is the winning formula.  One of the few bright spots that I have seen has been the effort by the Young Americans for Liberty.   https://yaliberty.org/door/


I am for free market as well, problem is when the first law was passed that restricted or regulated everyday business the free market ceased to exist.  Disagree with that.  I will agree that the first law began to erode the system of free market capitalism and put it under attack.  As a result, our economic system is increasingly more a system of crony capitalism rather than free market capitalism.  But I strongly disagree that free market capitalism has ceased to exist.  That is the argument that most liberals make when they are trying to sell their agenda for moving all the way to a complete socialist system.
 
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Darth Cheney on Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:11 am

I read some yesterday that Trump will impose the same tariff rates as other countries impose on our exports. If that is the case I am 100% behind him. I have had to learn to sit back sometimes with Trump at times he appears to be siding with the Demonrats. Every time it comes back to punish them in some way. He has done more for conservatism than any other president so he has my patience and trust. I thank God every day Trump was elected now. All of the other republican candidates would have capitulated to the Dems as they always have done. The establishment hates him but the conservative voters finally have a champion.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:28 am

Darth Cheney wrote:I read some yesterday that Trump will impose the same tariff rates as other countries impose on our exports. If that is the case I am 100% behind him. I have had to learn to sit back sometimes with Trump at times he appears to be siding with the Demonrats. Every time it comes back to punish them in some way. He has done more for conservatism than any other president so he has my patience and trust. I thank God every day Trump was elected now. All of the other republican candidates would have capitulated to the Dems as they always have done. The establishment hates him but the conservative voters finally have a champion.

Agree on the Trump stuff, but my dilemma are the tariffs.  I am not sure if I will ever completely understand what is the right position.   The "mirror tariff" thing sounds like a perfect starting point.  Way back when Trump was proposing his Border Adjustment Tax, I had the same opinion.  However, that seems to me that the "mirror tariff" is truly just the starting point.

How do we ever fully understand all of the government subsidies that some of these countries give their companies?  That seems like a very difficult thing to comprehend and truly level the playing field.  I tend to think that will be where all of the "feel good" solution efforts will end up making some costly mistakes.  One only has to look at Smoot-Hawley to get a glimpse of how bad the unintended consequences can be.

And these subsidies are not a one way street.  You only have to look at our farm subsidies to understand how crony capitialism has overtaken segments of our economic system.  
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:19 pm

I’m finding some stuff being put out by various conservative organizations that have a pretty solid long-standing history of standing strong for conservative principles on fiscal issues.  I remain torn on this tariff issue and can’t figure out what the right answer is.

The one thing that I would caution conservatives at this point is to be careful that we don’t’ jump to a FEEL-GOOD solution like liberals always do.  I am 100% convinced that only conservative principles will lead to TRUE solutions.  Unfortunately, I just can’t figure out what that means as being the correct position in tis complex and critical issue.

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/threat-trade-war-opposite-drain-swamp

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/ive-seen-horror-trumps-tariffs-reagans-terrible-trade-policies

https://www.clubforgrowth.org/uncategorized/club-for-growth-warns-against-steel-and-aluminum-tariffs-and-taxes/

https://americansforprosperity.org/steel-aluminum-tariffs-misguided-hurt-american-consumers/

I haven’t watched this video yet as it is almost an hour and half but will eventually get to it.  It appears that you can skip to about the 23-minute mark as it is a bunch of empty chairs until then.


I JUST WATCHED THE VIDEO AND WHILE THERE WAS A COUPLE OF INTERESTING POINTS, IT REALLY WAS QUITE BORING - I WISH I HAD WATCHED IT BEFORE POSTING.  IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOUR CHOICE IS WATCHING THE VIDEO OR WATCHING PAINT DRY - GO WITH THE PAINT.



Last edited by Jammer on Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:50 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Darth Cheney on Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:12 pm

I will add that it is imperative and in our vital interest that steel and aluminum production remains at levels that can support a military build up. We can not allow other countries to supply a large portion of our raw materials even if it is Canada. I'm not talking handouts to unions but perhaps helping companies, perhaps through tax incentives, to modernize their production facilities. To think iron ore can be shipped to China, made into steel, and shipped backed and sold at lower levels than can be done by American companies seems odd. The old union days of golden parachute benefits are over but I do believe if the industry is properly modernized we can compete with any country in cost and value. Steel and aluminum are critical to a country during war times and this world is not becoming a safer place.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:56 pm

Darth Cheney wrote:I will add that it is imperative and in our vital interest that steel and aluminum production remains at levels that can support a military build up. We can not allow other countries to supply a large portion of our raw materials even if it is Canada. I'm not talking handouts to unions but perhaps helping companies, perhaps through tax incentives, to modernize their production facilities. To think iron ore can be shipped to China, made into steel, and shipped backed and sold at lower levels than can be done by American companies seems odd. The old union days of golden parachute benefits are over but I do believe if the industry is properly modernized we can compete with any country in cost and value. Steel and aluminum are critical to a country during war times and this world is not becoming a safer place.

This is a very complex issue.  The dart I will toss at your comment is that tax incentives are a form of crony capitalism and does not adhere to conservative principles.  In my opinion there is no difference between tax incentives by liberals for solar panel construction and this tax incentive.  Both sides FEEL like it is warranted, but that does not make it a conservative principle.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:59 pm

One more thought to my EDIT regarding the boring video.  Probably the most interesting point I picked up or at least I thought I picked up was that the model used to justify the Trump tariffs on steel and aluminum were not based upon "mirror tariff" rates but were based upon what it would take to get US production levels up to a certain percentage.   Not sure what to make of all that.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Darth Cheney on Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:39 am

I normally don't favor government assistance to corporations but the production of steel and aluminum require massive investments for the foundries to produce them. Apparently, the cost of updating production facilities was beyond the scope of these industries as they largely didn't. Rather than a handout perhaps some kind of joint partnership...this gets out there on a very thin limb but the ability to produce these metals is absolutely imperative to a world super power. I'm not sure what the solution is but understand a solution is paramount. This is probably the only industry I feel government interjection may be required and I hate myself for suggesting it. I feel it is equally as dangerous to lose the ability for metal production in this nation to Kim Jon Ill having nuclear weapons. China is quickly becoming a world threat and I don't want to learn Chinese.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:14 am

Darth Cheney wrote:I normally don't favor government assistance to corporations but the production of steel and aluminum require massive investments for the foundries to produce them. Apparently, the cost of updating production facilities was beyond the scope of these industries as they largely didn't. Rather than a handout perhaps some kind of joint partnership...this gets out there on a very thin limb but the ability to produce these metals is absolutely imperative to a world super power. I'm not sure what the solution is but understand a solution is paramount. This is probably the only industry I feel government interjection may be required and I hate myself for suggesting it. I feel it is equally as dangerous to lose the ability for metal production in this nation to Kim Jon Ill having nuclear weapons. China is quickly becoming a world threat and I don't want to learn Chinese.

I fully agree, I also have no interest in learning Chinese.  However, I am going to keep throwing some “darts”.  First, just how big of a threat to the pending need to learn Chinese does our imported steel and aluminum present?

The top five exporters of steel to the United States are:
1. Canada
2. Brazil
3. South Korea
4. Mexico
5. Russia

The top four exporters of aluminum to the U.S. are:
1. Canada
2. Russia
3. United Arab Emirates
4. China

The above information from:  https://www.voanews.com/a/top-us-import-sources-steel-aluminum/4277212.html

There is some very interesting data in the following report.  

https://www.trade.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/imports-us.pdf


If I am reading it correctly, 88% of the steel exported out of Canada goes to the US.  Unlike the closed book mentality of China, data from Canada should be readily available and more importantly accurate.  So, anyone with adequate access to the data should be able to figure out quite easily just what it is that makes it so financially attractive to import so much steel from Canada rather than manufacturing it ourselves.

And while it would be a lot easier to speak Canuck than Chinese, I really would prefer to not need to learn it either.

In any event, I defer back to my conservative principles one of which is that the purpose (proper role) of taxes is to raise revenue for the level of government creating the tax and nothing else.  The tax code should never be sued to influence behavior.

Maybe I am naïve, but I have this belief that if we have a system of free market capitalism competing on a level playing field with fair and flat taxes for every corporation as well as a reasonable regulatory code, we can be competitive with any country in the world.  The only possible wild card in that equation is a UNION and that can be overcome by a state passing “right to work” legislation.

The difficult thing is determining if the playing field is level and if not, how do you compensate to make it level.  We must fight the frailty of humans and that is human nature.  Instinctively we all want to come up with a quick and easy FEEL GOOD solution, so we can feel good about fixing the problem.  The problem with that is these FEEL GOOD solutions never seem to work.  We have decades of failed LIBERAL FEEL GOOD solutions to verify that statement.  In addition, it is way too easy for politicians to begin using this approach to appeal to voters and that becomes a vicious cycle leading to many adverse consequences.
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Jammer

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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Clicker on Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:12 pm

Just saw a clip of Trump's speech last nite. He is finally attacking the EU directly on the Tariff issue. His incremental style is working as I see it. He particularly mentioned agribusiness as a damaged party by EU tariffs.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:14 pm

Clicker wrote:Just saw a clip of Trump's speech last nite.  He is finally attacking the EU directly on the Tariff issue.  His incremental style is working as I see it.  He particularly mentioned agribusiness as a damaged party by EU tariffs.

The EU already has tariffs on US agricultural products and I am sure will at a minimum threaten to increase the coverage and the rates.  However, what is your take on the differences between these EU tariffs and the hefty subsidies by the US government for US farmers?

https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/40408/30643_wrs0404c_002.pdf?v=41465

Income support measures in U.S. farm policy include direct payments, counter-cyclical payments, ad hoc disaster assistance programs, and marketing assistance loans and loan deficiency payments. Subsidized crop and revenue insurance also support income by reducing risk and increasing expected net returns from insurance.  

Once government starts intruding into the free markets, it is a never ending slippery slope.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Clicker on Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:42 pm

Jammer wrote:
Clicker wrote:Just saw a clip of Trump's speech last nite.  He is finally attacking the EU directly on the Tariff issue.  His incremental style is working as I see it.  He particularly mentioned agribusiness as a damaged party by EU tariffs.

The EU already has tariffs on US agricultural products and I am sure will at a minimum threaten to increase the coverage and the rates.  However, what is your take on the differences between these EU tariffs and the hefty subsidies by the US government for US farmers?

https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/40408/30643_wrs0404c_002.pdf?v=41465

Income support measures in U.S. farm policy include direct payments, counter-cyclical payments, ad hoc disaster assistance programs, and marketing assistance loans and loan deficiency payments. Subsidized crop and revenue insurance also support income by reducing risk and increasing expected net returns from insurance.  

Once government starts intruding into the free markets, it is a never ending slippery slope.

Trumps comment made it seem that the EU had us literally locked out of the ag market. Kinda like Japan when they ad the rice exclusion in place. The only rice sold in japan was domestically grown. US farm subsidies have always been a mystery to me. I grew up in a rural community where farming was prevalent. Folks used to talk about subsidies but they seemed to be more for price support and strategic reserve. Today they seem to be hedge against crop failure causing a bankrupt farming community. They also smell strongly of political support purchasing too.
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