Proposed Tariffs

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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:14 pm

Clicker wrote:
Jammer wrote:
Clicker wrote:Just saw a clip of Trump's speech last nite.  He is finally attacking the EU directly on the Tariff issue.  His incremental style is working as I see it.  He particularly mentioned agribusiness as a damaged party by EU tariffs.

The EU already has tariffs on US agricultural products and I am sure will at a minimum threaten to increase the coverage and the rates.  However, what is your take on the differences between these EU tariffs and the hefty subsidies by the US government for US farmers?

https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/40408/30643_wrs0404c_002.pdf?v=41465

Income support measures in U.S. farm policy include direct payments, counter-cyclical payments, ad hoc disaster assistance programs, and marketing assistance loans and loan deficiency payments. Subsidized crop and revenue insurance also support income by reducing risk and increasing expected net returns from insurance.  

Once government starts intruding into the free markets, it is a never ending slippery slope.

Trumps comment made it seem that the EU had us literally locked out of the ag market.  Kinda like Japan when they ad the rice exclusion in place.  The only rice sold in japan was domestically grown. US farm subsidies have always been a mystery to me.  I grew up in a rural community where farming was prevalent.  Folks used to talk about subsidies but they seemed to be more for price support and strategic reserve. Today they seem to be hedge against crop failure causing a bankrupt farming community.  They also smell strongly of political support purchasing too.

I keep reading that report comparing the US and EU farm policies and get more mystified every time I read it.  It is incredibly complicated with all of the hooks the two governments have into agriculture.  The tariffs are the easiest thing to unravel.  I am not sure how they ever  get to a level playing field.  It would appear that regardless of what side you are on, you can make a convoluted argument defending whatever you wanted to do next.

If reading that document doesn't convince people that government just needs to stay out of the markets/economy, nothing will.  There is no better source of guidance on what the right decisions regarding production, etc than the market.  The market always gets it right and will reward those who make good decisions and work hard and will punish those who don't.

The Founders had it right. The Constitution gives the federal government the authority to establish a proper monetary system and ensure the free flow of commerce between the states.   Other than that, it granted no power to congress to regulate the economic affairs of the people.   It was the Founders' intent to keep the federal government completely out of the free-market economy.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:35 pm

Did anybody see Benjamin Netanyahu on Life, Liberty and Levin?  The part I really liked was his defense of free market capitalism and especially his analogy using the two-man race.  That was great and worth remembering.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:21 am

It looks like my previous comment was pretty accurate:

 It would appear that regardless of what side you are on, you can make a convoluted argument defending whatever you wanted to do next.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/eu-says-expects-contacts-no-115024820.html
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Darth Cheney on Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:30 pm

Jammer wrote:Did anybody see Benjamin Netanyahu on Life, Liberty and Levin?  The part I really liked was his defense of free market capitalism and especially his analogy using the two-man race.  That was great and worth remembering.

That was my favorite part and an analogy that will stick with me forever.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:19 am

With his sudden and unexpected firing of Secretary of State Res Tillerson, President Trump may have just demonstrated one more time that he doesn’t understand the principle of “For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction”.  I am not sure how Tillerson will take this or how he will respond, but it would not surprise me if he pulls a Senator McCain stunt.  It is only human nature and while Rex Tillerson is a stronger person than weak kneed McCain, you just never know.

I have no idea about the merits of this move.  It is probably a good move overall, but what I don’t understand is why Trump must poke everyone in the eye.  It would seem that there should be better ways to handle some of these situations.    
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Clicker on Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:53 pm

Jammer wrote:With his sudden and unexpected firing of Secretary of State Res Tillerson, President Trump may have just demonstrated one more time that he doesn’t understand the principle of “For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction”.  I am not sure how Tillerson will take this or how he will respond, but it would not surprise me if he pulls a Senator McCain stunt.  It is only human nature and while Rex Tillerson is a stronger person than weak kneed McCain, you just never know.

I have no idea about the merits of this move.  It is probably a good move overall, but what I don’t understand is why Trump must poke everyone in the eye.  It would seem that there should be better ways to handle some of these situations.    

The buzz in DC has been panning Tillerson for months now. The appearance is that the Trumpster and Rex didn't see eye to eye on something in current events. I never trust the talk track that everything is hunky dory and in perfect harmony, so things like this never surprise me. We do now have someone in the Sec State office with International intelligence experience which is a real plus and perhaps the reason he's there.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:37 pm

Clicker wrote:
Jammer wrote:With his sudden and unexpected firing of Secretary of State Res Tillerson, President Trump may have just demonstrated one more time that he doesn’t understand the principle of “For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction”.  I am not sure how Tillerson will take this or how he will respond, but it would not surprise me if he pulls a Senator McCain stunt.  It is only human nature and while Rex Tillerson is a stronger person than weak kneed McCain, you just never know.

I have no idea about the merits of this move.  It is probably a good move overall, but what I don’t understand is why Trump must poke everyone in the eye.  It would seem that there should be better ways to handle some of these situations.    

The buzz in DC has been panning Tillerson for months now.  The appearance is that the Trumpster and Rex didn't see eye to eye on something in current events.  I never trust the talk track that everything is hunky dory and in perfect harmony, so things like this never surprise me.  We do now have someone in the Sec State office with International intelligence experience which is a real plus and perhaps the reason he's there.  

I don't disagree with you at all on that.  As for the degree of improvement, there is no question Pompeo is probably going to be a much better fit as he is more in-sync with President Trump not to mention maybe even stronger  But what will his back-fill look like.  I don't know anything about the indicted replacement for him in the CIA and there is no guarantee that she can get confirmed.  The CIA along with the FBI and Attorney General roles are CRITICAL.

My question is if this has been in the works for so long (and I don't doubt that), why in the world would you not have a better plan than a Tweet and a phone call from Air Force 1 to inform Tillerson?  Everybody has an ego to some degree and one would think a person like Tillerson has a pretty big one.  So, why would you want to OFFEND him unnecessarily?  

Why not just sit down across the desk and tell him straight up that the differences in philosophy are too great and a change has to be made.  Then agree on a timetable and announcement plan that lets Tillerson go out without spitting in his face?  If down the road Tillerson becomes an adversarial liability for Trump like McCain has, he has nobody to blame but himself.   Fire him, but box him in in such a manner that if he opposes Trump down the road, Tillerson comes off looking like the jerk and Trump picks up a few brownie points.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Darth Cheney on Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:47 pm

I am 100% behind Trump's decision. His cabinet is there to implement his policies not their own. Tillerson butted heads with Trump on too many issues and even went so far to call him a moron. Time for him to go and Trump has an excellent replacement and new CIA director. There job is not to lead but follow...those who forget get replaced.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:24 pm

Darth Cheney wrote:I am 100% behind Trump's decision. His cabinet is there to implement his policies not their own. Tillerson butted heads with Trump on too many issues and even went so far to call him a moron. Time for him to go and Trump has an excellent replacement and new CIA director. There job is not to lead but follow...those who forget get replaced.

It will be interesting on how the confirmation process goes for the new CIA director.  That could turn out to be a tough one.

I don't see a problem in having a cabinet that has opinions and views that are outside of what the President thinks.  If they are all in lock step with him, I think you will hear the word dictator being used.  That is the way it works in China, Cuba and North Korea.

On the other hand, once a decision is made by the President, then the time for disagreement is over and everybody needs to be paddling in the same direction or it is time to get out of the boat.

What is a little troubling is the speed at which the revolving door in the White House seems to be spinning.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/18/us/politics/white-house-staff-fired-resigned.html

Nothing wrong with change, but somehow you need to have continuity.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Clicker on Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:25 pm

Jammer wrote:
Darth Cheney wrote:I am 100% behind Trump's decision. His cabinet is there to implement his policies not their own. Tillerson butted heads with Trump on too many issues and even went so far to call him a moron. Time for him to go and Trump has an excellent replacement and new CIA director. There job is not to lead but follow...those who forget get replaced.

It will be interesting on how the confirmation process goes for the new CIA director.  That could turn out to be a tough one.

I don't see a problem in having a cabinet that has opinions and views that are outside of what the President thinks.  If they are all in lock step with him, I think you will hear the word dictator being used.  That is the way it works in China, Cuba and North Korea.

On the other hand, once a decision is made by the President, then the time for disagreement is over and everybody needs to be paddling in the same direction or it is time to get out of the boat.

What is a little troubling is the speed at which the revolving door in the White House seems to be spinning.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/18/us/politics/white-house-staff-fired-resigned.html

Nothing wrong with change, but somehow you need to have continuity.

Continuity is difficult to define by anyone other than the architect of the actions. The NY Slimes rarely descriibes anything Trump without failing to give us the whole story. the best way to describe what Trump is doing is to look to the world of corp board room actions. They seldom describe continuity as well but in the end seem to work most of the time. I've lived in and in small ways participated in board room shakeups and they never seemed to show continuity to the outsiders trying to fathom the activity.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:41 pm

Clicker wrote:
Jammer wrote:
Darth Cheney wrote:I am 100% behind Trump's decision. His cabinet is there to implement his policies not their own. Tillerson butted heads with Trump on too many issues and even went so far to call him a moron. Time for him to go and Trump has an excellent replacement and new CIA director. There job is not to lead but follow...those who forget get replaced.

It will be interesting on how the confirmation process goes for the new CIA director.  That could turn out to be a tough one.

I don't see a problem in having a cabinet that has opinions and views that are outside of what the President thinks.  If they are all in lock step with him, I think you will hear the word dictator being used.  That is the way it works in China, Cuba and North Korea.

On the other hand, once a decision is made by the President, then the time for disagreement is over and everybody needs to be paddling in the same direction or it is time to get out of the boat.

What is a little troubling is the speed at which the revolving door in the White House seems to be spinning.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/18/us/politics/white-house-staff-fired-resigned.html

Nothing wrong with change, but somehow you need to have continuity.

Continuity is difficult to define by anyone other than the architect of the actions.  The NY Slimes rarely descriibes anything Trump without failing to give us the whole story.  the best way to describe what Trump is doing is to look to the world of corp board room actions.  They seldom describe continuity as well but in the end seem to work most of the time.  I've lived in and in small ways participated in board room shakeups and they never seemed to show continuity to the outsiders trying to fathom the activity.

If you are working on something that is short term, continuity is not much of a deal.  However, when you are engaged in long term strategies and efforts, continuity and a system of continuance are quite important.

As for "boardroom shake-ups, when there is a problem dealing with integrity, ethics, etc. or you want to CHANGE DIRECTION in the strategy that you have been working on, continuity is not only NOT needed but can be an impediment.

I was not necessarily referring to an outside appearance, but the actual operation and resulting effectiveness as well as efficiency in reaching the outcomes you desire.  The outside appearance does have a bearing on elections as the less informed electorate sometimes base their voting decisions on some pretty superficial reasons.  One has to wonder about the outcome of the special election last night.  None of this Tillerson thing matters to the "choir" (aka: The Trumpsters").  However, no matter how much we wish we were in the solid majority, we are not.  We need those in the mushy middle to not get turned in a different direction.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:26 pm

I would love to have somebody provide an explanation of the following that alleviates my fears and worries.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/14/mcmaster-shulkin-and-kelly-could-be-next-to-go-in-white-house-bloodbath-sources-say.html
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:17 pm


Well, I am now in the camp of those who think the Republic is lost.  After this, Trump will never get re-elected in 2020.

www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/23/trump-mulls-veto-1-3-trillion-spending-bill-over-lack-border-wall-daca.html

This will cost him at least a quarter of his conservative base and probably much more than that.

Debt is the greatest weapon the demonrats have to destroy our Republic and make it their socialist utopia.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Darth Cheney on Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:51 pm

I am done with the traitorous bastard republicans in Congress. Today they guaranteed a democrat takeover of the House and ultimate impeachment of Trump. We are nothing more than a banana republic and you need to look no further than Venezuela to see our future. I am so F'in done with them and will vote demonrat from now on. As long as we are going to collapse this great nation, the sooner it happens the less rebuilding will be required. F Trump, F all the republicans that voted for this spending monstrosity. I welcome Trump being impeached and the entire system collapsing. See you all on the other side!
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:20 pm

Darth Cheney wrote:I am done with the traitorous bastard republicans in Congress. Today they guaranteed a democrat takeover of the House and ultimate impeachment of Trump. We are nothing more than a banana republic and you need to look no further than Venezuela to see our future. I am so F'in done with them and will vote demonrat from now on. As long as we are going to collapse this great nation, the sooner it happens the less rebuilding will be required. F Trump, F all the republicans that voted for this spending monstrosity. I welcome Trump being impeached and the entire system collapsing. See you all on the other side!

After seeing your comment as well as talking to several people today, I would like to change my statement:

FROM:
This will cost him at least a quarter of his conservative base and probably much more than that.

TO:
This will cost him at least a quarter 75% of his conservative base and probably much more than that.



Trump is done, you can stick a fork in him.  True conservatives are just downright pissed at him.  My prediction is that as soon as he realizes he has lost his conservative base, the dumbass will try to move to the left and win favor with the demonrats.  He is not an ideological conservative and will probably move in the direction the wind is blowing.  I hope I am way off on this and he draws a line in the sand where he comes back with a vengeance, but I doubt it.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Darth Cheney on Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:19 am

Jammer wrote:
Darth Cheney wrote:I am done with the traitorous bastard republicans in Congress. Today they guaranteed a democrat takeover of the House and ultimate impeachment of Trump. We are nothing more than a banana republic and you need to look no further than Venezuela to see our future. I am so F'in done with them and will vote demonrat from now on. As long as we are going to collapse this great nation, the sooner it happens the less rebuilding will be required. F Trump, F all the republicans that voted for this spending monstrosity. I welcome Trump being impeached and the entire system collapsing. See you all on the other side!

After seeing your comment as well as talking to several people today, I would like to change my statement:

FROM:
This will cost him at least a quarter of his conservative base and probably much more than that.

TO:
This will cost him at least a quarter 75% of his conservative base and probably much more than that.



Trump is done, you can stick a fork in him.  True conservatives are just downright pissed at him.  My prediction is that as soon as he realizes he has lost his conservative base, the dumbass will try to move to the left and win favor with the demonrats.  He is not an ideological conservative and will probably move in the direction the wind is blowing.  I hope I am way off on this and he draws a line in the sand where he comes back with a vengeance, but I doubt it.

I actually hold 99% of my contempt for the republicans that voted for this fiscal mess and the ones fighting Trump every step of the way since he was elected. The republicans controlled both houses and the presidency and they squandered that power and oppertunity in protection of the Big State. We do not live in a representative republic but a tyranny controlled by the powers and lobbyist in DC. This ends in complete destruction of this nation and its principles. I am officially finished with the political system as mine and any vote is utterly meaningless. They will come for our guns as we are nearing the end.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:05 am

Darth Cheney wrote:


I actually hold 99% of my contempt for the republicans that voted for this fiscal mess and the ones fighting Trump every step of the way since he was elected. The republicans controlled both houses and the presidency and they squandered that power and oppertunity in protection of the Big State. We do not live in a representative republic but a tyranny controlled by the powers and lobbyist in DC. This ends in complete destruction of this nation and its principles. I am officially finished with the political system as mine and any vote is utterly meaningless. They will come for our guns as we are nearing the end.

I partially agree with you, but that means I also partially disagree with you.  Here is my take on the situation:

The root cause of this problem lies with Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell.  There is no way this piece of crap legislation should have ever been sent to the White House.  However, by my count there were 23 Republican Senators and 90 Republican Representatives who followed their principles and had the courage to vote against this piece of crap.

However, that situation is nothing new, it is something we have been dealing with for years and I thought Trump described it and his task very well when he said he was going to DC to “DRAIN THE SWAMP”.  With his veto of this legislation and demanding that Congress return to DC and pass another SHORT TERM continuing resolution to allow them to present him with an acceptable budget and spending plan would have been a big step in DRAINING THE SWAMP.  Trump could have said do that or if they preferred they could shut down the government.

The problem is the swamp creatures that have taken over the swamp.  I would not label it all REPUBLICANS even though it is disappointing that the Republican Party allows these swamp creatures to wear the big red “R”.  

My conclusion on this issue is that TRUMP failed us on this one.  Why should we expect the swamp creatures to behave any differently on their own?  That was our great hope that Trump would actually DRAIN THE SWAMP.  However, he chose to leave the plug in and let the swamp creatures behave just like they have been for decades.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Darth Cheney on Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:01 pm

Jammer wrote:
Darth Cheney wrote:


I actually hold 99% of my contempt for the republicans that voted for this fiscal mess and the ones fighting Trump every step of the way since he was elected. The republicans controlled both houses and the presidency and they squandered that power and oppertunity in protection of the Big State. We do not live in a representative republic but a tyranny controlled by the powers and lobbyist in DC. This ends in complete destruction of this nation and its principles. I am officially finished with the political system as mine and any vote is utterly meaningless. They will come for our guns as we are nearing the end.

I partially agree with you, but that means I also partially disagree with you.  Here is my take on the situation:

The root cause of this problem lies with Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell.  There is no way this piece of crap legislation should have ever been sent to the White House.  However, by my count there were 23 Republican Senators and 90 Republican Representatives who followed their principles and had the courage to vote against this piece of crap.

However, that situation is nothing new, it is something we have been dealing with for years and I thought Trump described it and his task very well when he said he was going to DC to “DRAIN THE SWAMP”.  With his veto of this legislation and demanding that Congress return to DC and pass another SHORT TERM continuing resolution to allow them to present him with an acceptable budget and spending plan would have been a big step in DRAINING THE SWAMP.  Trump could have said do that or if they preferred they could shut down the government.

The problem is the swamp creatures that have taken over the swamp.  I would not label it all REPUBLICANS even though it is disappointing that the Republican Party allows these swamp creatures to wear the big red “R”.  

My conclusion on this issue is that TRUMP failed us on this one.  Why should we expect the swamp creatures to behave any differently on their own?  That was our great hope that Trump would actually DRAIN THE SWAMP.  However, he chose to leave the plug in and let the swamp creatures behave just like they have been for decades.

Many of the ones who didn't vote for this have an upcoming election and their votes weren't needed to pass this. I've watched this head dodge game time after time. In fact, that would be interesting to see what percentage of no votes are up for re-election. I trust none of them anymore...it is all Kabuki theater.
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:51 pm

Darth Cheney wrote: Many of the ones who didn't vote for this have an upcoming election and their votes weren't needed to pass this. I've watched this head dodge game time after time. In fact, that would be interesting to see what percentage of no votes are up for re-election. I trust none of them anymore...it is all Kabuki theater.



Subject to senior senility, here is my best summary of which Republican Senators voted against the Omnibus Spending Bill along with the Republican Senate seats up for re-election along with the indicated intent of the incumbent as of early February.

It appears that only 3 who voted NO are seeking re-election.

Barrasso (R-WY)
Cassidy (R-LA)
Corker (R-TN)
Cotton (R-AR)
Crapo (R-ID)
Cruz (R-TX)
Daines (R-MT)
Enzi (R-WY)
Ernst (R-IA)
Fischer (R-NE)
Flake (R-AZ)
Gardner (R-CO)
Grassley (R-IA)
Johnson (R-WI)
Kennedy (R-LA)
Lankford (R-OK)
Lee (R-UT)
Paul (R-KY)
Perdue (R-GA)
Risch (R-ID)
Sasse (R-NE)
Sullivan (R-AK)
Tillis (R-NC)


Republicans up for reelection in 2018:


Arizona: Jeff Flake (Won by 49% in 2012) (He will not be running in 2018) Current age: 54  
Mississippi: Roger Wicker (Won by 57% in 2012) (Intent for 2018 unknown) Current age: 65
Nebraska: Deb Fischer (Won by 56% in 2012) (Intent for 2018 unknown) Current age: 65
Nevada: Dean Heller (Won by 46% in 2012) (Running in 2018) Current age: 56
Tennessee: Bob Corker (Won by 65% in 2012) (He will not be running in 2018) Current age: 64
Texas: Ted Cruz (Won by 57% in 2012) (Running in 2018) Current age: 46  
Utah: Orrin Hatch (Won by 65% in 2012) (Intent for 2018 unknown) Current age: 82
Wyoming: John Barrasso (Won by 76% in 2012) (Intent for 2018 unknown) Current age: 64
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Re: Proposed Tariffs

Post  Jammer on Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:59 pm


Good summary of the nightmares associated with the bloated spending bill.

https://www.facebook.com/yaliberty/videos/10155500183780197/?t=1
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