John Thune Votes for Cloture on Obamacare Debate

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John Thune Votes for Cloture on Obamacare Debate

Post  Gomezz Adddams on Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:20 pm

No surprise here. Here's the list, albeit short, of the honorable Senators who did the right thing. Note Grassley from Iowa.

By a supermajority of 79 - 19, Senators agreed to end debate on the House version of the bill that defunds Obamacare. Senators voting against cloture included Mike Crapo (Idaho), Ted Cruz (Tex.), Mike Enzi (Wyo.), Deb Fischer (Neb.), Charles E. Grassley (Iowa), Dean Heller (Nev.), James M. Inhofe (Okla.), Mike Lee (Utah), Jerry Moran (Kan.), Rand Paul (Ky.), Rob Portman (Ohio), James E. Risch (Idaho), Pat Roberts (Kan.), Marco Rubio (Fla.), Tim Scott (S.C.), Jeff Sessions (Ala.), Richard C. Shelby (Ala.), Patrick J. Toomey (Pa.) and David Vitter (La.). All other Republican senators voted to support cloture and move the bill forward.
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/brenner-brief/2013/sep/27/senate-votes-ends-debate-continuing-resolution-def/

Not that it matters but here is a copy of an email that I just sent Thune. I just needed to vent:

"I just want to say that because of John Thune's vote today in the Senate for cloture on ending the debate to defund Obamacare that he will never again have my support whether through letters to the newspapers, monetary contributions or my vote at the ballot box. He has earned my eternal disdain. Shame on him."
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Re: John Thune Votes for Cloture on Obamacare Debate

Post  Jammer on Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:03 pm

Gomezz Adddams wrote:No surprise here. Here's the list, albeit short, of the honorable Senators who did the right thing. Note Grassley from Iowa.

By a supermajority of 79 - 19, Senators agreed to end debate on the House version of the bill that defunds Obamacare. Senators voting against cloture included Mike Crapo (Idaho), Ted Cruz (Tex.), Mike Enzi (Wyo.), Deb Fischer (Neb.), Charles E. Grassley (Iowa), Dean Heller (Nev.), James M. Inhofe (Okla.), Mike Lee (Utah), Jerry Moran (Kan.), Rand Paul (Ky.), Rob Portman (Ohio), James E. Risch (Idaho), Pat Roberts (Kan.), Marco Rubio (Fla.), Tim Scott (S.C.), Jeff Sessions (Ala.), Richard C. Shelby (Ala.), Patrick J. Toomey (Pa.) and David Vitter (La.). All other Republican senators voted to support cloture and move the bill forward.
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/brenner-brief/2013/sep/27/senate-votes-ends-debate-continuing-resolution-def/

Not that it matters but here is a copy of an email that I just sent Thune. I just needed to vent:

"I just want to say that because of John Thune's vote today in the Senate for cloture on ending the debate to defund Obamacare that he will never again have my support whether through letters to the newspapers, monetary contributions or my vote at the ballot box. He has earned my eternal disdain. Shame on him."
I understand your position and don't necessarily disagree with it.  However, this is a complex issue and there can be 2 sides to this vote.  And while there could be a conservative argument made to a YES vote, it is a difficult situation to analyze.

There is no question in my mind that this current issue can be like a lot of disagreements conservatives have with liberals.  Many times those arguments are not over WHAT, but HOW to do something.  I will give an example of helping the needy.  Conservatives want to help the TRULY needy (not deadbeats) but they want to do it in a completely different manner than do liberals.

As a result, liberals immediately claim the conservatives hate the poor and they don't care about anybody but themselves.  However, that is not accurate.  Conservatives merely do not want unlimited funding to be used by the wrong level of government (federal) and indiscriminately handed out by remote bureaucrats to anybody that is looking for a "free lunch".

PERHAPS, (and that is a big perhaps) this situation is similar and the disagreement is over HOW to stop Obamacare.  Therefore, if Thune is actually in agreement over WHAT to do (repeal Obamacare) but merely wants to do it a different way, I think we owe him at least a temporary get out of jail card.  Time will tell what he is really thinking.

I know that I am as conservative as they come and I absolutely think Obamacare is a disaster that must be stopped.  However, I would go about it in a much different way.

If I was designing the strategy I would leave Obamacare in the continuing resolution but go on the record big time will all kinds of TV ads stating your case for what a disaster Obamacare is but that it is a 100% democrat owned disaster.

I would then have waited for the legislation to increase the national debt and said NO.  It was time that we lived within our budget.  The only way to negotiate around that issue would be for the democrats to agree to a complete 100% repeal of Obamacare and to start all over from the beginning to come up with a workable solution.

The Republicans could argue the position that Obama and the democrats promised that Obamacare would not add one penny to the deficit and in fact over the next decade will help us reduce our national debt.  OK then, it is time to make good on that promise.

If Obamacare doesn't add to the deficit and will actually reduce the national debt, then there is no need to raise the debt limit.  It is time that we get our other spending under control just like Obamacare and therefore, NO MORE BORROWING.  Stop the spending beyond our means and Obamacare should not be a money problem since the democrats told us it wouldn't be.

Obviously, Obama cannot balance the budget without borrowing and therefore he would either have to repeal Obamacare or deal with the problem that democrats OWN.  Anyhow, that is how I would go after Obamacare.  I would not draw the line at the annual budget legislation but at the legislation to increase the national debt.  When you make the issue over not passing a budget, you run the traditional risk of having it become a Republican problem.  I say - put the monkey on the democrats' back where it belongs.  And I think you will find wider support for not living beyond our means rather than not passing an ANNUAL budget.

EDIT:  After additional time to think on this I believe I would also add another angle.  I am not sure where you slide it in, but I would introduce legislation that removes all waivers for Obamacare for EVERYBODY.  If is such a great deal and good for some Americans it is good for ALL Americans.  Dimwit democrats would have to go on the record to carve out special exemptions or if they pass the legislation there are going to be a lot of people who are now avoiding Obamacare that will be awful unhappy with them.


Last edited by Jammer on Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: John Thune Votes for Cloture on Obamacare Debate

Post  Darth Cheney on Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:27 pm

Thune has been a democrat light eve since he was elected. Besides holding Mitch McConnell up to the microphone, when has he ever voted to limit the size or spending of government? Here is a hint...he never as except for little absurd bills he brings to the floor to make him look conservative. I would rather have the half brained communist...at least you know his intentions.
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Re: John Thune Votes for Cloture on Obamacare Debate

Post  Jammer on Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:25 pm

Darth Cheney wrote:Thune has been a democrat light eve since he was elected. Besides holding Mitch McConnell up to the microphone, when has he ever voted to limit the size or spending of government? Here is a hint...he never as except for little absurd bills he brings to the floor to make him look conservative. I would rather have the half brained communist...at least you know his intentions.
You are right about Thune as he is not nearly as conservative as I would like. His lifetime score at the Heritage Foundation is a pretty weak 76%. Once they fall below 80%, I think they have definitely drifted out of the conservative range.

http://congress.freedomworks.org/legislators/john-thune

He does a little better over at the Club for Growth where his lifetime score is 80%. The CFG only scores economic/fiscal issues and pretty much stays away from all social issues on their scorecards.

http://www.clubforgrowth.org/projects/scorecard/?year=2012&chamber=1&state=SD&party=Any&memberName=

The one thing you can note about Thune is that as he gets near an election year for him, his voting gets much more conservative. I guess he figures we are not smart enough to look past the last year.

However, I do have to disagree with you on sooner having the halfwit communist. There are just not enough strong conservative candidates and I think we need to accept small wins at times. If we had an abundance of good conservatives to run, then we could throw these marginal guys under the bus whenever they stepped out of line. However, we just do not have that luxury today.
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Re: John Thune Votes for Cloture on Obamacare Debate

Post  Gomezz Adddams on Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:30 pm

Jammer wrote:
Gomezz Adddams wrote:No surprise here. Here's the list, albeit short, of the honorable Senators who did the right thing. Note Grassley from Iowa.

By a supermajority of 79 - 19, Senators agreed to end debate on the House version of the bill that defunds Obamacare. Senators voting against cloture included Mike Crapo (Idaho), Ted Cruz (Tex.), Mike Enzi (Wyo.), Deb Fischer (Neb.), Charles E. Grassley (Iowa), Dean Heller (Nev.), James M. Inhofe (Okla.), Mike Lee (Utah), Jerry Moran (Kan.), Rand Paul (Ky.), Rob Portman (Ohio), James E. Risch (Idaho), Pat Roberts (Kan.), Marco Rubio (Fla.), Tim Scott (S.C.), Jeff Sessions (Ala.), Richard C. Shelby (Ala.), Patrick J. Toomey (Pa.) and David Vitter (La.). All other Republican senators voted to support cloture and move the bill forward.
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/brenner-brief/2013/sep/27/senate-votes-ends-debate-continuing-resolution-def/

Not that it matters but here is a copy of an email that I just sent Thune. I just needed to vent:

"I just want to say that because of John Thune's vote today in the Senate for cloture on ending the debate to defund Obamacare that he will never again have my support whether through letters to the newspapers, monetary contributions or my vote at the ballot box. He has earned my eternal disdain. Shame on him."
I understand your position and don't necessarily disagree with it.  However, this is a complex issue and there can be 2 sides to this vote.  And while there could be a conservative argument made to a YES vote, it is a difficult situation to analyze.

There is no question in my mind that this current issue can be like a lot of disagreements conservatives have with liberals.  Many times those arguments are not over WHAT, but HOW to do something.  I will give an example of helping the needy.  Conservatives want to help the TRULY needy (not deadbeats) but they want to do it in a completely different manner than do liberals.

As a result, liberals immediately claim the conservatives hate the poor and they don't care about anybody but themselves.  However, that is not accurate.  Conservatives merely do not want unlimited funding to be used by the wrong level of government (federal) and indiscriminately handed out by remote bureaucrats to anybody that is looking for a "free lunch".

PERHAPS, (and that is a big perhaps) this situation is similar and the disagreement is over HOW to stop Obamacare.  Therefore, if Thune is actually in agreement over WHAT to do (repeal Obamacare) but merely wants to do it a different way, I think we owe him at least a temporary get out of jail card.  Time will tell what he is really thinking.

I know that I am as conservative as they come and I absolutely think Obamacare is a disaster that must be stopped.  However, I would go about it in a much different way.

If I was designing the strategy I would leave Obamacare in the continuing resolution but go on the record big time will all kinds of TV ads stating your case for what a disaster Obamacare is but that it is a 100% democrat owned disaster.

I would then have waited for the legislation to increase the national debt and said NO.  It was time that we lived within our budget.  The only way to negotiate around that issue would be for the democrats to agree to a complete 100% repeal of Obamacare and to start all over from the beginning to come up with a workable solution.

The Republicans could argue the position that Obama and the democrats promised that Obamacare would not add one penny to the deficit and in fact over the next decade will help us reduce our national debt.  OK then, it is time to make good on that promise.

If Obamacare doesn't add to the deficit and will actually reduce the national debt, then there is no need to raise the debt limit.  It is time that we get our other spending under control just like Obamacare and therefore, NO MORE BORROWING.  Stop the spending beyond our means and Obamacare should not be a money problem since the democrats told us it wouldn't be.

Obviously, Obama cannot balance the budget without borrowing and therefore he would either have to repeal Obamacare or deal with the problem that democrats OWN.  Anyhow, that is how I would go after Obamacare.  I would not draw the line at the annual budget legislation but at the legislation to increase the national debt.  When you make the issue over not passing a budget, you run the traditional risk of having it become a Republican problem.  I say - put the monkey on the democrats' back where it belongs.  And I think you will find wider support for not living beyond our means rather than not passing an ANNUAL budget.
r]
I disagree with just about everything you said. While more libertarian in my beliefs than conservative, I find myself in complete agreement with that paleo-conservative Pat Buchanan.

"If Obamacare is funded, the subsidies starting in January will constitute a morphine drip from which America’s health-care system will not recover. If not stopped now, Obamacare is forever."  Buchanan is 100% correct.

The time was now and unfortunately Senate leadership, which Thune is part of, lost their spine (if they ever had one). You can pretty much put your feet up and get comfortable with Ozombascare because it is a done deal.

The Old Lions in the Senate are toothless. Their time is past. The Young Turks are willing to stand up to the Freak in the White House and break some dishes. Unfortunately too many conservatives seem all too willing and complacent and be content with small victories (which are few to non existant) until 2014 and 2016 which by then will be too late to end this Nightmare of Ozombascare.
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Re: John Thune Votes for Cloture on Obamacare Debate

Post  Jammer on Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:57 pm

Gomezz Adddams wrote:I disagree with just about everything you said. While more libertarian in my beliefs than conservative, I find myself in complete agreement with that paleo-conservative Pat Buchanan.

"If Obamacare is funded, the subsidies starting in January will constitute a morphine drip from which America’s health-care system will not recover. If not stopped now, Obamacare is forever."  Buchanan is 100% correct.

The time was now and unfortunately Senate leadership, which Thune is part of, lost their spine (if they ever had one). You can pretty much put your feet up and get comfortable with Ozombascare because it is a done deal.

The Old Lions in the Senate are toothless. Their time is past. The Young Turks are willing to stand up to the Freak in the White House and break some dishes. Unfortunately too many conservatives seem all too willing and complacent and be content with small victories (which are few to non existant) until 2014 and 2016 which by then will be too late to end this Nightmare of Ozombascare.
Well perhaps you could tell me where I said I didn't think Obamacare should be stopped?

Are you saying that it cannot be stopped in conjunction with raising the debt limit?  We are only about 1 month away from reaching the debt ceiling.  I would be surprised that waiting one month would matter especially if the debt ceiling offered a much better strategic position for congressional Republicans.

Also, I am not sure if the legislation you are in favor of was the final answer.  I have heard multiple reports that have said the bill merely delayed Obamacare for one year.  Delaying Obamacare for one year is pretty meaningless in my mind.

I am not sure how one finds out the exact details of the House bill without reading it.  I will post a link below, but that is not the only place I heard it.  It was mentioned several times on FOX News as a delay of Obamacare to 2014.

If that is factual, then I have to say that I disagree with you 100% because a delay is meaningless - it must be repealed.

http://shark-tank.net/2013/07/18/republicans-respond-to-passage-of-obamacare-delay-bills/
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