Crazy rears its ugly head again !

Clicker wrote:

Dr. Evil wrote: Just listening to Gov Abbott on CNN. "The best way to confront this evil is by using the forces of God to confront and overcome this evil".  IT WAS A FRIGGIN CHURCH!! HOW MUCH MORE GOD DO YOU NEED?? Anyhow... thoughts and prayers for all involved. That's all you get from us.

The Antifa shooter had made statements that he was starting a civil war. You don't want to see what could come down on the heads of Antifa if he has succeeded.  They might just learn what the Second Amendment was written for.  You might think that these shootings are simply a tool for gun grabbers to make their point but it in fact has backfired on them.  

It appears to have been a personal vendetta against his in-laws, members of that church, who happened to not be there on that day. My guess is that they had, or were trying to get their daughter away from their gun-toting abusive son-in-law, and he wasn't having it. No 'antifa'. No ISIS. No gun grab. Just another retard with a gun. Sorry to disappoint you guys. Better luck next shooting....

Well I'll be damned....fought with his MIL just before shooting...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/devin-patrick-kelley-texas-shooting-suspect-sutherland-springs-first-baptist-church-latest/

Dr. Evil wrote:It appears to have been a personal vendetta against his in-laws, members of that church, who happened to not be there on that day. My guess is that they had, or were trying to get their daughter away from their gun-toting abusive son-in-law, and he wasn't having it. No 'antifa'. No ISIS. No gun grab. Just another retard with a gun.  Sorry to disappoint you guys. Better luck next shooting....

It does appear there was a domestic situation unfolding within the family.

Elsewhere it is mentioned he bought all the guns himself.

I am curious if his answers to questions 11c., 11g., and 11i. (which should have covered his conviction and confinement for domestic abuse and subsequent bad conduct discharge from the Air Force) affected the background check IAW the ATF Form 4473.

I was under the impression, from chatting with sales people while I fill out the 4473, a "YES" to either 11c, 11g, or 11i would prevent a person being able to buy a gun. Come to think of it, been told any "YES" to any question other than 11a would prevent a person from buying a gun.

Even if he indicated "NO" for these questions and assuming his past actions should have prevented him from buying a gun .. how did he slip through the cracks?

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

Seems the Air force made a little mistakiepoo..................

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/air-force-mistake-kept-texas-shooters-conviction-off-background-check-database-report/article/2639807

Clicker wrote:Seems the Air force made a little mistakiepoo..................

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/air-force-mistake-kept-texas-shooters-conviction-off-background-check-database-report/article/2639807

Well, well, that seems to answer how he was able to buy guns.

Wonders how many more "little mistakes" left behind by the Obama admin are going to come seeping out to bite us? His reductions in the military and changing the leadership from righties to lefties is going to keep giving us fits unless Trump fires the limp wrist weak kneed metrosexual  leadership and installs disciplined results oriented leaders.

This is turning into a story only a script writer could imagine. But then art does imitate life do it not?

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/11/06/texas-gunman-killed-his-wifes-grandmother-in-church-shooting/23268597/

Skeptical wrote:

Dr. Evil wrote:It appears to have been a personal vendetta against his in-laws, members of that church, who happened to not be there on that day. My guess is that they had, or were trying to get their daughter away from their gun-toting abusive son-in-law, and he wasn't having it. No 'antifa'. No ISIS. No gun grab. Just another retard with a gun.  Sorry to disappoint you guys. Better luck next shooting....

It does appear there was a domestic situation unfolding within the family.

Elsewhere it is mentioned he bought all the guns himself.

I am curious if his answers to questions 11c., 11g., and 11i. (which should have covered his conviction and confinement for domestic abuse and subsequent bad conduct discharge from the Air Force) affected the background check IAW the ATF Form 4473.

I was under the impression, from chatting with sales people while I fill out the 4473, a "YES" to either 11c, 11g, or 11i would prevent a person being able to buy a gun. Come to think of it, been told any "YES" to any question other than 11a would prevent a person from buying a gun.

Even if he indicated "NO" for these questions and assuming his past actions should have prevented him from buying a gun .. how did he slip through the cracks?

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

Liberals say we need more screening yet all the questions they seek were on the feral ATF form he fraudulently filled out. Maybe more laws, regulations and rules is the answer....

On Monday the Air Force acknowledged it did not relay the killer's court martial conviction for domestic assault to civilian law enforcement that could have prevented him purchasing the firearms used in the shooting wrote:

There are few things that can really burn my behind besides a three foot candle and the above happens to be one!

How in the blue blazes are we supposed to rely on a system that specifies background checks to buy a gun when the integrity of that very system is compromised by lack of pertinent data.

INMO, the failure of the Air Force to forward Kelley's information is a clear case of an existing law was not followed(enforced)

This failure is a prime example supporting the calls over the years laws need to be followed(enforced)instead of creating more laws!

This revelation should not be used to "Fix Blame", rather it is a wake up moment to fix the problem by assuring this type of error doesn't not happen again.

Skeptical wrote:

This revelation should not be used to "Fix Blame", rather it is a wake up moment to fix the problem by assuring this type of error doesn't not happen again.

I envision a overreaction to the lack of due diligence by the Air Force. A virtual witch hunt will now commence, every agency now placing charges on people way over the usual charges in order to CYA in case of a mistake. They will also be eager to point to their efforts as a confirmation of the seriousness they put on the issue. I think this was anticipated by Trump in his recent statements. Efforts would be better used to enforce what we already have and do a sweep of the system to see if other errors have slipped thru the cracks.

Gadzooks!!!!! More of the insanity of the shooter.
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/11/07/texas-gunman-devin-kelley-escaped-from-mental-health-facility-in-2012/23269824/

Clicker wrote: Efforts would be better used to enforce what we already have and do a sweep of the system to see if other errors have slipped thru the cracks.  

I thoroughly agree! As gut wrenching as this preventable (Monday morning quarterbacking) incident was we should hope it is the catalyst to create, as Clicker states, a sweep of the system to see what other errors are out there.


Good grief, the dropped balls just keep coming!

In June 2012, Kelley escaped from the mental health facility in Santa Rosa, New Mexico, according to El Paso police documents. Kelley was picked up after the facility listed him as missing. The documents said officers had been warned that Kelley was a danger to himself and others and that he had sneaked firearms onto Holloman Air Force Base, where he reportedly threatened his commanders.
In addition to abuse of his spouse and stepson, Kelley had been arrested in August 2014 on an animal cruelty charge in El Paso County, Colorado, after a witness said he had punched a dog, grabbed it by the neck and dragged the animal. Kelley denied the account and was issued a summons but didn't spend any time in jail.

This guy was a disaster just waiting to happen.

I notice there are calls for more gun laws, one California lawmaker actually walked out of a moment of silence for the victims in protest because Congress hasn't done things he wants done.

This incident clearly points out how if the laws had been followed and/or enforced the good people of Sutherland Springs may have had a pleasant Sunday instead of massive grief!

I truly hope that the families of the victims band together and sue the hell out of whoever is responsible for the screwups that allowed this insane idiot to legally buy guns.  This is a poster boy for what not to do when entrusted with the ability to make guns harder to get for the criminally insane.

Clicker wrote:I truly hope that the families of the victims band together and sue the hell out of whoever is responsible for the screwups that allowed this insane idiot to legally buy guns.  This is a poster boy for what not to do when entrusted with the ability to make guns harder to get for the criminally insane.

My step dad was a hard man, very hard but fair and had a saying about those who make mistakes that create horrible results, "give them a good swift kick in the ass to get their attention"

Perhaps if the families of the victims do as you suggest, perhaps, just perhaps, that would be the attention getter for those who are supposed to be the experts and proficient in creating an accurate and viable database for the ATF Form 4473 background checks.

It pains me that so many people have died and others suffering and grief stricken because, for whatever reason, people failed to perform with the proficiency required and expected.

Truthfully, the Feral government HIPAA laws almost prevent all of this information from being released to anyone regardless of the reasons. The very agency that the liberals run to when they are frightened is the most incompetent bunch of morons ever assembled. Maybe that is why they are drawn to them. Hey Libs, not only will the government NOT save you...they actually created every problem associated with this shooting. Every man, woman, and child for themselves...the feral government will not protect you or is even obligated to do so.

Obama admin was lax on enforcement of form 4473 "errors" or outright lying on the questions.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/18/biden-to-nra-we-dont-have-the-time-to-prosecute-people-who-lie-on-background-checks/

Another example of how Dems create mass shootings.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/11/democrats-killed-bill-stopped-texas-church-killer-buying-gun-video/

Clicker wrote:Another example of how Dems create mass shootings.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/11/democrats-killed-bill-stopped-texas-church-killer-buying-gun-video/

Was it a clean bill?

Another problem that could have been solved by the bill that was vetoed by the Dems.


http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/08/militarys-known-about-crime-reporting-lapses-to-fbi-for-two-decades/

Clicker wrote:Another problem that could have been solved by the bill that was vetoed by the Dems.


http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/08/militarys-known-about-crime-reporting-lapses-to-fbi-for-two-decades/

Again, was it a clean bill?

Dr. Evil wrote:https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jeff-flake-martin-heinrich-introduce-bill-to-close-domestic-violence-loophole-in-military/

Is it a clean bill ?

Skeptical wrote:

Dr. Evil wrote:https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jeff-flake-martin-heinrich-introduce-bill-to-close-domestic-violence-loophole-in-military/

Is it a clean bill ?

That really doesn't matter, the Dems would filibuster any bill that had anything in it that they didn't agree with.  They will also filibuster anything that they didn't think of first.  Too many years of listening to the Libs cry that the Reps are in "lockstep' and then the Dems turning out to be the ones that are rigid and unbending has proven this.