Re: A question for conservatives

Dr. Evil Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:28 am

Jammer wrote:Well it looks like Skeptical has taken his bat and ball and gone home. That is too bad as I was hoping he would at least attempt to expand on his idea.

I think he was very mistaken in believing that the first thing we had to do to fix our problems in this country was to change our attitude. It is virtually impossible to get a person to change their attitude or their way of thinking or feeling about something with any one simple action. You can tell a person all you want to quit feeling entitled or feeling like a victim, but it will usually fall on deaf ears.

You can take the example above with the FREE LUNCH sign in a restaurant or maybe a more real life example of a farmer and farm subsidies. I know several fairly conservative farmers who do not believe in federal government subsidy programs. They do not think these subsidies are right and the programs should be done away with. However, I do not know a single one of them who has refused to participate in the subsidy programs. Just like that darn FREE LUNCH sign, human nature is eventually going to win out.

They do actually. I know one guy in particular who disenrolled himself from the farm program and then tiled every last square inch of his farm. Because there was nothing they could say. Trust me when I tell you these "handouts" are far more to your benefit than a producer's.

Therefore, if you want to end the entitlement mentality you must end the programs. Otherwise there is no amount of “attitude adjustment” that we result in any meaningful changes.

I personally wished Skeptical would have taken the time to have “peeled back the onion” on his idea. I think if he had done that he would realize that attitudes are not the root cause of these entitlement problems. I think the ultimate underlying problem is our VALUE system.

If you go back to the days of our country’s founding, the underlying values this country was built on were Judeo-Christian values. Unfortunately we have lost so much of this value system. The atheists have come in and removed God not only from our schools but our government and our lives. They have replaced Christian values with their atheist socialist values. And if that isn’t bad enough, progressive liberal political correctness has allowed Muslim values to begin replacing Judeo-Christian values in all too many areas.

I personally believe people’s attitudes are the result of their relationships, experiences and other external factors that ultimately develop their personal value system. So what caused, allowed or contributed to the values systems of our Founders, I personally believe it was one thing, their relationship with God.

So what should a conservative do to help restore our Judeo Christian value system and ultimately change or improve our attitudes? I personally believe we should rely on the same thing our Founding Fathers relied on and that was the “Power of the Pulpit”.

We have way too many conservative ministers who are afraid to speak out and use their power of the pulpit. They need to be encouraged to stand strong and speak out. But even worse than that, we are seeing an explosion of ministers and priests who believe in social justice (socialism) and simply need to be removed from their positions by their parishioners. If you follow Matt Staver, David Barton, Rick Scarborough or several others, you will have heard of the actions they are trying to take to make this happen.

Therefore, I think if Skeptical was serious about his idea he would have said that his action was to: Restore America’s Judeo Christian values by restoring the “Power of the Pulpit”.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=161423

http://www.blackrobereg.org/mission.html

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2014/6/30/16532/0925/Front_Page/Matt_Staver_Warns_Pastors_Silence_is_Not_an_Option

http://www.lc.org/resources/pastors_churches_politics.htm

http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/texas-minister-leads-fight-against-filibuster/

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
John Adams

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
Benjamin Franklin

"The only foundation for... a republic is to be laid in Religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments."
Benjamin Rush

Jammer Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:25 pm

It has become painfully obvious there is very little interest in discussing ACTIONS that might actually fix the problems we have in this country. Our interests seem to be more along the lines of whines and wishes. There seems to be an endless list of things we love to whine about and hundreds of things that we wished were different. Unfortunately without specific concrete actions to solve problems, conservatives will be relegated to whining and wishing the rest of their lives.

It also appears that some conservatives seem to think we are immune from the unintended consequences of our actions regardless of how noble or directionally correct they are. That was displayed in Gomezz’s submittal of ending the Fed and returning to a gold standard. That is a wonderful idea and I think it is 100% directionally correct. However, how do you do it without creating all kinds of unintended consequences along the way which in turn will cause a violent backlash by the people and result in the derailment of the action?

I don’t have a clue on how you go from the current fiat money system we have and return to a system where it is backed by gold. There are trillions of dollars in the system and I don’t even know the correct amount or which measurement to use. There is M1 – M2 – M3 and who knows how many other Ms there are. If that wasn’t bad enough, I heard that the Federal Reserve no longer really uses those measurements. They have gone to a system where each morning somebody yells to the stock room guy, “Are we out of paper and ink yet”? And if the answer is NO, then he yells to the guy running the printing press “Keep printing”.

My concern is how do you get all of those paper dollars back and more importantly when you issue your new currency backed by gold: Where does all the gold come from and just how much money can you then reissue under your new gold standard? I have a feeling that an unintended consequence is a serious contraction in the money supply which I think will bode very poorly for the US economy. And on a personal note, that dollar I have in my checking account, the dollar I have invested in the stock market and the dollar I have tied up in my house, just what are those dollars worth? And even more importantly, just what will they be able to buy. Unless well thought out, I think the liberals will be crying about all those stupid conservatives and all of the unintended consequences created by their dumbass ideas.

I really wish Gomezz would have replied. I guess he also doesn’t have a clue and it was more of a wish than a concrete action. Apparently his Google was not able to find the answer for him. But perhaps he is getting close. I see that wonderful picture of the young girl flashing her boobs to the cows. Now if he can just find a picture from the cows view, he just might have found his gold standard.

I was hoping somebody would challenge me on my two choices. But that won’t stop me from posting my thoughts on them for Darth to read. He is probably the only one on here who really gives a crap about these things.

My personal belief is that even if you could fix our tax system; eliminate the US Department of Education or any other conservative wish that would only be a temporary band-aid. The dumbass evil liberals would immediately work to elect a president who would use his pen and phone to unwind every solution that was implemented.

Therefore, I think you must first fix the SYSTEM before you can ever permanently repair any damage done by the dumbass liberals. Yes, many of their problems have come from going around the system or ignoring it. However, in my opinion most of these would never have occurred before the progressive liberals broke the system.

The Founders thought long and hard about this. They studied every system of government that ever existed and then put together the most wonderful invention the world has ever known, the US system of government and a written Constitution to protect it.

Therefore I say two of the most important actions that conservatives should be advocating for are the repeal of the 17th Amendment and the restoration of the Electoral College.

The Founder’s Formula for Freedom used to be in the structure of the U.S. Constitution. It provided for:

Limited and delegated powers
Vertical distribution of powers
Horizontal separation of powers
Checks and balances

Each branch of the federal government (the House of Representatives, the Senate, the President and the Supreme Court) was to be selected by a different method, a different set of people, for a different length of time, to represent different interests. Each branch was assigned specific enumerated powers.

The US Senate was never intended to represent the people; its sole mission was to represent the STATES. And the president was never intended to be the President of the American people as the Founders realized that would only over time result in the office becoming the King of the American people. They intended the President to be the President of the UNION of the states.

The Founders realized that different interests had to be represented. A balance can only be achieved when the different branches are elected by those who represent those different interests. These separate branches can then check each other from usurping powers that were not delegated.

So let’s start with the 17th Amendment. This disaster comes courtesy of the same progressive philosophy that prevailed during the early 1900’s. This is the same progressive era that brought us the Income Tax Amendment and the Federal Reserve. The 17th Amendment took from the state legislatures the right to choose their two Senators, and turned that responsibility over to the people of the state.

As a result, the same people who choose their Representatives by a direct election would also choose their Senators in a direct state-wide election. We ended up with the people getting double representation and the states losing their representation. Is it any wonder that the concept of states’ rights is almost a distant memory?

This also was the root cause of what we often call “pork barrel” spending. There would be no “pork barrel” spending without the 17th Amendment. Yes the Founders understood that human nature would cause the elected Representatives to pander for votes by bringing home the pork. However, none of these bills with “earmarks” in them would have ever gotten past the US Senate as why would the Senate pass spending bills that didn’t benefit their state?

However, after the 17th Amendment the fox was now guarding the hen house. After the 17th Amendment do you expect Senators to vote against legislation and spending that benefits the exact same constituency tht elects them? Before the 17th Amendment, all but two of the US Senators would have been under pressure from their constituency had they voted in favor of the Cornhusker kickback.

So how about all of the changes to the Electoral College? The Founders understood that a direct democracy never works except for extremely small entities. They knew that human nature causes most people to vote in their own best interest. Think about it, how many dumbass liberals come out of dumbass liberal colleges where they were taught by their dumbass liberal professors telling everyone they know at election time to be sure to “vote in their own best interest”.

Is it any wonder that there is not more outrage over the usurpation of power by the executive branch of the government? Well when the electoral constituency is the same for the President, the House of Representatives and the US Senators, most of the low information voters not only don’t recognize what is occurring, but they could care less. It doesn’t make any difference to them where the power resides because all of the politicians represent them and they all are promising a FREE LUNCH.

The Founders designed a unique system to select the best possible presidents, not the one with the most charisma, the best sound bites or who was going to GIVE away the most free lunches. The Electoral College has become nothing more than a rubber stamp for political parties and direct election by a vote of the people. If there were no national or statewide elections for President, Vice President, US Senators and US Representatives (small states with 1 representative excluded), just how much influence would NATIONAL political parties have? Not much!!!

The Founders' process included 3 distinct and separate steps. The first step began with a rational nomination of the possible candidates. The second step was to narrow the possibilities down to the best qualified choices. And the third step was the ultimate selection of the best person to be the President of the Union of States.

Today the system has been eroded to where it is a small fractional step away from being a direct election by the people and a crowning of their king. The dumbass democrats continue to take that last small step with their National Popular Vote movement. The next thing you know they will want to pass the office (aka: Throne) down to the spouse and children.

In my personal opinion, conservatives should be educating low information voters on how the system has been broken and just why that is important. Hopefully much of their future advocacy will be for fixing the system.

Because please remember:

ONLY YOU CAN PREVENT LIBERALISM

Over and OUT.

Darth Cheney Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:00 pm

I'm really not sure how the Genie can be put back into the bottle. So much erosion of our rights by the government has occurred, sadly I feel it is coming to a painful conclusion. The Supreme Court rules based on their feelings and ignores every aspect of the Constitution. Congress is totally corrupt and the President is a black Dictator. You are correct about the Senators should be appointed by the States but even reversing that back to the intent would have little effect now. Even though I am spewing doom and gloom, which I am known for, I believe after we experience a total collapse of government and society turns into a zombie apocalypse. The nation will come back and have additional government constraints that will prevent "The Great Society" and every other federal government meddling program. What we had will be gone and its replacement will take decades in my estimation. I really can't see how you can stop this train from hitting the cliff. What was once the greatest country the world has ever known, where anyone regardless of race, income, or nationality could achieve as much as they desired if they put the hard work into it has become a liberal cesspool.

The Great Society and liberal cities will be the hardest hit as nearly half our country has no real skills or ability to survive beyond robbing and killing. I really find it incredible more people don't see the future as I do and believe me I do not want it and would rather it didn't happen. It's going to be incredibly violent, painful, and hard for those that survive. Our children and grandchildren deserved so much more but greed and envy has ruled thanks to the Great Divider. Stock up on bullets, beans, and guns...you're going to need them if you plan on surviving.

Forgot...Have a Nice Day! Twisted Evil

Give liberals no quarter!

Clicker Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:20 am

Jammer wrote:It has become painfully obvious there is very little interest in discussing ACTIONS that might actually fix the problems we have in this country.

The problem with discussing actions is that there is a large group of folks out there who no longer think there is a truly peaceful solution to the "problem". Citing the militant nature of our founding Revolution is a good way to draw the wrong kind of attention. Politicians are a "protect me first" lot, proven by the actions of the current MT suit in the WH. As long as they hold the power they do it's not healthy to make noises that threaten them directly. Look at the current armed force that can legally operate within our borders, they now have a large army in the country at their disposal.

Gomezz Adddams Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:15 pm

blah, blah, blah, and blah .... I really wish Gomezz would have replied. I guess he also doesn’t have a clue and it was more of a wish than a concrete action. Apparently his Google was not able to find the answer for him. But perhaps he is getting close. I see that wonderful picture of the young girl flashing her boobs to the cows. Now if he can just find a picture from the cows view, he just might have found his gold standard. ...... blah, blah, blah and still more blah.

Crikers! I'll respond in my own time at my own leisure. Sorry if that offends your sensibilities. I actually have other activities on my "social calendar" (such as it is) that occupy my time and I don't really care to hang out here 24/7.

Firstly, Google doesn't "find answers. Using it that way makes it similar to a calculator, if you enter the wrong numbers, use the wrong operator you'll get crap. Garbage In Garbage Out. If you're not satisfied with your results you are structuring your query wrong. Use Google properly and it becomes an amazing index of knowledge.

Secondly, Google is hardly my sole source of information. As a voracious reader, I own a library that probably exceeds 1,000 volumes, most of which are history, political science and philosophy. I also use my Kindle quite a bit to research electronic books.

Thirdly, this is the stuff I studied when I went to The College at University of Chicago. Two years of the Common Core (no not that common core) will do wonders to sharpen your focus and train you in research abilities, writing and reasoning/logic. If you want to bump chests then fine, let the games begin

Your jeremiad is nothing more than a cut-n-paste mashup of poorly constructed arguments from the various tin-pot websites you visit. Case in point is your use of "Founders" as if they engaged in some group mind thought. It is chic these days, among both conservatives and liberals, to invoke them to support their side of an argument usually with the use of quote mining, a dubious source considering many quotes are spurious, some constructed and almost always taken out of context. The veneration of the Founders borders on the absurd.

In his study, "An Economic Interpretation of the Constitution of the United States" Professor Charles Beard posits that the Constitutional Convention was guided more by the Framers self-interest than their intellect. You could say the same for many of the backers of ratification, from the merchants and manufacturers desire for a central government to override State interests in trade to the creditors who had bought up Revolutionary war bonds for pennies and now demanded payment in full.

In regards to your desire to repeal the 17th Amendment and revert to Art 1, Sec 3 selection, I'm not convinced that would be any more productive in giving the States a greater voice in governance on the Federal level. With the rise of the Leviathan central government under Lincoln and the reaffirmation under FDR, I believe it would amount to trying to put toothpaste back into the tube. Also at the time of ratification of the 17th Amendment, the States themselves were moving to a more democratic election of Senators with half using primaries to select Senatorial nominations for the various legislatures to vote on. In essence a direct election and there is nothing that would prevent any/all of them from adopting this process again.

Your claim that a return to the original selection process would reduce pork barrel spending is rank BS. "Log rolling" was an institutional sport in Congress from day one. Hamilton's economic program, the American System, was built on the premises of a central bank, regional subsidies for "internal improvements" and tariffs to favor manufacturing. Study up on Henry Clay and the Whigs. Check out how Lincoln was able to implement the program under the guise of war, that couldn't be done legislatively. And check out why this was one of the main reasons the South withdrew from the Union.

And let's not forget one of the main reasons the 17th Amendment was implemented. The failure of the State Legislatures to elect Senators left some states without representation for years. And why was that important? Because it interfered with doling out patronage jobs. Face it the Senate had become a sclerotic oligarchy and had become a rich man's club with seats up for sale to the highest bidder. The Senate had never become what the Framers had envisioned.

I need to tend to my "social calendar" now so I'll return for my thoughts on your electoral college when time permits.

Darth Cheney Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:31 pm

Dammit...I was out boating this weekend and thought I would take all my guns and ammo along with just for fun. Well I'll bet you can guess, as we lost sight of land the waves came increasingly higher and higher and before you knew it the boat filled with water and I lost every gun and bullet I once had. I tried to make some location reference but to no avail. All is lost and I doubt I will ever purchase another as the federal government does a great job at protecting me and my family from harm. Sad

Gomezz Adddams Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:46 pm

Darth Cheney wrote:Dammit...I was out boating this weekend and thought I would take all my guns and ammo along with just for fun. Well I'll bet you can guess, as we lost sight of land the waves came increasingly higher and higher and before you knew it the boat filled with water and I lost every gun and bullet I once had. I tried to make some location reference but to no avail. All is lost and I doubt I will ever purchase another as the federal government does a great job at protecting me and my family from harm.

Dammit! What's this like the 3rd or 4th time this has happened Darth?

Darth Cheney Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:51 pm

Gomezz Adddams wrote:
Darth Cheney wrote:Dammit...I was out boating this weekend and thought I would take all my guns and ammo along with just for fun. Well I'll bet you can guess, as we lost sight of land the waves came increasingly higher and higher and before you knew it the boat filled with water and I lost every gun and bullet I once had. I tried to make some location reference but to no avail. All is lost and I doubt I will ever purchase another as the federal government does a great job at protecting me and my family from harm.

Dammit! What's this like the 3rd or 4th time this has happened Darth?

You would think I would learn my lesson and never takes guns and ammo boating again.

Skeptical Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:40 pm

Darth Cheney wrote:
Gomezz Adddams wrote:
Darth Cheney wrote:Dammit...I was out boating this weekend and thought I would take all my guns and ammo along with just for fun. Well I'll bet you can guess, as we lost sight of land the waves came increasingly higher and higher and before you knew it the boat filled with water and I lost every gun and bullet I once had. I tried to make some location reference but to no avail. All is lost and I doubt I will ever purchase another as the federal government does a great job at protecting me and my family from harm.

Dammit! What's this like the 3rd or 4th time this has happened Darth?

You would think I would learn my lesson and never takes guns and ammo boating again.

Too bad you didn't recall "X" marks the spot and put an "X" on the bottom of the boat !

Skeptical Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:40 pm

Overall, Totally flabbergasted !!

Gomezz Adddams Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:25 pm

Jammer wrote:
Over and OUT.

Oh, I get it. You're picking up your ball and going home. Jeezus, didn't you do this same crap last year when I offended you with some questions about your conservatism? And didn't you pull this same crap over on GLPVQ™? I guess if you can't run with the big dogs then it's best to go home and cry on the wife's shoulder like a liberal would.

Just Braying It Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:44 am

Darth Cheney wrote:Dammit...I was out boating this weekend and thought I would take all my guns and ammo along with just for fun. Well I'll bet you can guess, as we lost sight of land the waves came increasingly higher and higher and before you knew it the boat filled with water and I lost every gun and bullet I once had. I tried to make some location reference but to no avail. All is lost and I doubt I will ever purchase another as the federal government does a great job at protecting me and my family from harm.

I thought Obama already took all of your guns, McVeigh.

Darth Cheney Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:10 am

Ham Flower? wrote:
Darth Cheney wrote:Dammit...I was out boating this weekend and thought I would take all my guns and ammo along with just for fun. Well I'll bet you can guess, as we lost sight of land the waves came increasingly higher and higher and before you knew it the boat filled with water and I lost every gun and bullet I once had. I tried to make some location reference but to no avail. All is lost and I doubt I will ever purchase another as the federal government does a great job at protecting me and my family from harm.

I thought Obama already took all of your guns, McVeigh.

There is no need for defense in Obama's Amerika as all is safe and government is in control. I even take my hands off the wheel when I'm driving and ask Obama to take control of my life. All praise his magnificence!!!

Gomezz Adddams Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:30 am

Darth Cheney wrote:
Ham Flower? wrote:
Darth Cheney wrote:Dammit...I was out boating this weekend and thought I would take all my guns and ammo along with just for fun. Well I'll bet you can guess, as we lost sight of land the waves came increasingly higher and higher and before you knew it the boat filled with water and I lost every gun and bullet I once had. I tried to make some location reference but to no avail. All is lost and I doubt I will ever purchase another as the federal government does a great job at protecting me and my family from harm.

I thought Obama already took all of your guns, McVeigh.

There is no need for defense in Obama's Amerika as all is safe and government is in control. I even take my hands off the wheel when I'm driving and ask Obama to take control of my life. All praise his magnificence!!!

I drink milk after it's expiration date. affraid

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